NR2003: What is "Damping"?

Got a decent feel in my FFB wheel in NR2002 by using 30% Damping--but I have never understood why that number works best. What exactly is the Damping slider doing? Noticed that in the demo, Damping defaults to 0. Tried it there for a while, then switched to 100% and then to 50%. I think I have ended up back at 30% as feeling the best, but it is totally "seat of the pants." Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting? Thanks, Marc -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? ****************************************************************************

Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement down, like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become less clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other effects. Achim "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QIoX9.6332$[email hidden]... > ...Damping - Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting?

And all this time I thought by having damping set at zero I was keeping any overnight dew from accumulating on my wheel. "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0m0ko$r075b$[email hidden]... > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movementdown, > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically becomeless

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> clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > effects. > > Achim > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QIoX9.6332$[email hidden]... > > ...Damping - Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting? > >

<g> Achim "Bob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kCAX9.45$[email hidden]... > And all this time I thought by having damping set at zero I was keepingany

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> overnight dew from accumulating on my wheel. > > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b0m0ko$r075b$[email hidden]... > > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement > down, > > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. > > > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at

the > > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become > less > > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > > effects.

One positive thing that comes with damping, IMO, is the feeling of weight transfer. Since it is a friction effect, but the friction required to turn the wheels against the ground varies with weight, turning up damping increases the feel you get from weight transfer. At 100% damping it is definitely overdone though, I tend to keep it at 50% or less. BTW Achim, just where in any NR series game have you been driving in deep mud? ;o) "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0m0ko$r075b$[email hidden]... > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movementdown, > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically becomeless

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> clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > effects. > > Achim > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QIoX9.6332$[email hidden]... > > ...Damping - Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting? > >

Hi Haqsau, good point about the mud <g> I usually have damping set to 1%. That gives you a hint of damping without blanking out the subtle spring effects. Achim "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0muih$pog6b$[email hidden]... ... > BTW Achim, just where in any NR series game have you > been driving in deep mud? ;o)

Joachim Trensz wrote: > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement down, > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength' setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting. I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL & N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are canned. > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become less > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation. Gerry

I think you may be on to something Gerry. Can you give any more details about the oscillation effect? That's how I would describe what I feel in NR6 demo. Instead of a constant force throughout the corner I get these oscillations of heavy effect then light effect then back and forth. I use a Momo racing with no wingman software. I had it perfect in GTR2k2 with few adjustments but NR6 has no happy spot that I can find ;) Control Panel settings? In game settings? Mitch "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movementdown,

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> > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud. > > I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the > 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength' > setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting. > > I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL & > N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told > that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are > canned. > > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at

the > > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically becomeless > > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > > I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping > the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation. > > Gerry

Hi Gerry, thanks for the info. I probably never noticed that there aren't any real damping effects as when set to 1%, they're quite subtle <g> Apologies to the guy I gave incorrect information to. Achim "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the > 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength' > setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting.... > I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping > the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation.

It's the same, but a different implementation. From what I have heard at www.wingmanteam.com, Papy implements their damper effect within their physics model, and therefore the end result is that it only modifies the force that is sent to the FFB device, instead of sending a damper effect. This allows them tighter control of the effect, at the expense of requiring a latency correction to prevent problems. But the idea behind the effect is still the same - a force that is proportional to and opposed to steering wheel motion. "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the > 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength' > setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting. > > I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL & > N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told > that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are > canned. > > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at

the > > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically becomeless > > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > > I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping > the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation. > > Gerry

OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :) Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0nidf$r8rks$[email hidden]... > It's the same, but a different implementation. From what I have heard at > www.wingmanteam.com, Papy implements their damper effect within their > physics model, and therefore the end result is that it only modifies the > force that is sent to the FFB device, instead of sending a damper effect. > This allows them tighter control of the effect, at the expense ofrequiring > a latency correction to prevent problems. But the idea behind the effectis

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> still the same - a force that is proportional to and opposed to steering > wheel motion. > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the > > 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength' > > setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting. > > > > I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL & > > N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told > > that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are > > canned. > > > > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at > the > > > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically

become

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> less > > > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other > > > > I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping > > the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation. > > > > Gerry > >

I've always set it to something very low, like 0% or 1%. I'd only increase it if the car/steering suffers from apparently self-induced left/right-oscillations. Achim "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KfJX9.2675$[email hidden]... > OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :)

Whatever you like of course. ;o) I have read your posts about FF in GPL. You use very different settings than I do, but I don't doubt that you are very satisfied with them. I would think that in your case you would want damping at 100%, latency at 0, and strength at 100%. Not sure if that will give you the same feel you get in GPL, but it should be similar. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KfJX9.2675$[email hidden]... > OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :) > > Marc >

100% damping is terrible in NR2002 and in the demo so far. As I said, 30% seems to feel about right, but I still don't know why. What do you use in GPL and with what wheel? Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0oiso$rsm85$[email hidden]... > Whatever you like of course. ;o) I have read your posts about FF in GPL. > You use very different settings than I do, but I don't doubt that you are > very satisfied with them. I would think that in your case you would want > damping at 100%, latency at 0, and strength at 100%. Not sure if thatwill

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> give you the same feel you get in GPL, but it should be similar. > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KfJX9.2675$[email hidden]... > > OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :) > > > > Marc > > > >

LOL! I'm glad someone finally asked :) Larry "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KfJX9.2675$[email hidden]... > OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :)

You use really high damping in GPL though, right? Or am I getting you confused with someone else? Anyway, maybe the damping in NR2002 etc. is on a whole different scale than GPL, or maybe it's just that the Cup cars are so much heavier than '67 F1 cars that you have to use less damping in NR to get the feel you want. Anyway FWIW here are my settings for GPL: force_feedback_damping = 30.0000 force_feedback_latency = 0.03500 max_steering_torque = 225.000000 I also use the profiler to reduce the overall strength to 78%. Global FF settings are all default. This is for a Momo Racing wheel. Not perfect I suppose, but it feels pretty good to me. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ndVX9.2888$[email hidden]...

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> 100% damping is terrible in NR2002 and in the demo so far. As I said, 30% > seems to feel about right, but I still don't know why. > > What do you use in GPL and with what wheel? > > Marc >

No I am not one of the people who use the high damping settings in GPL. Tried it and found WAY too much spiking and false feedback. Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0q3s3$s2nki$[email hidden]... > You use really high damping in GPL though, right? Or am I getting you > confused with someone else? Anyway, maybe the damping in NR2002 etc. ison > a whole different scale than GPL, or maybe it's just that the Cup cars are > so much heavier than '67 F1 cars that you have to use less damping in NRto

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> get the feel you want. Anyway FWIW here are my settings for GPL: > > force_feedback_damping = 30.0000 > force_feedback_latency = 0.03500 > max_steering_torque = 225.000000 > > I also use the profiler to reduce the overall strength to 78%. Global FF > settings are all default. This is for a Momo Racing wheel. Not perfect I > suppose, but it feels pretty good to me. > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ndVX9.2888$[email hidden]... > > 100% damping is terrible in NR2002 and in the demo so far. As I said,

30%

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> > seems to feel about right, but I still don't know why. > > > > What do you use in GPL and with what wheel? > > > > Marc > > > >

According to a post you made earlier in the week, you were using "180 damping/0 latency/150 torque" with your old Ferrari wheel. Since the default damping in GPL is 40 I consider that high, and btw I agree with what you say about the effects of having damping too high. Are you using lower numbers now? Just curious. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Oj3Y9.9998$[email hidden]... > No I am not one of the people who use the high damping settings in GPL. > Tried it and found WAY too much spiking and false feedback. > > Marc >

Don't know if you will notice this since I just looked back now to see that you had replied... I am using 150/0/150 now. I was referring to the people who use settings in the thousands...that's what I cal high!! The 40 is for the MS wheel. Papy has stated that they calibrated it for that and if you have a Logi or something else 40 is unlikely to be optimal. Marc "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0rd3s$s1bp3$[email hidden]... > According to a post you made earlier in the week, you were using "180 > damping/0 latency/150 torque" with your old Ferrari wheel. Since the > default damping in GPL is 40 I consider that high, and btw I agree withwhat

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> you say about the effects of having damping too high. Are you using lower > numbers now? Just curious. > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Oj3Y9.9998$[email hidden]... > > No I am not one of the people who use the high damping settings in GPL. > > Tried it and found WAY too much spiking and false feedback. > > > > Marc > > > >