OT: System Upgrade - Good Ol' BX mobo...

Hi, A friend has asked me for upgrade advice for GTR 2002. His current system is:- Celeron 1GHz Socket 370 512MB PC133 SDRAM Aopen AX6BC BX mainboard (Slot 1 with a Socket 370 adapter) GeForce 2 GTS It performs much better than I expected it to but he'd like to spend about US$100 on improving it. The reason I'm asking here is that there was some talk about people hanging in there with their BX mainboards a little while ago and I thought maybe someone could shed some light on the subject. A new mainboard might be an option, but new RAM would blow the budget. Any ideas appreciated...

I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want to srap my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going with an ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a new Athlon socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for $86). The cool thing about the ECS board is that it has slots for both DDR and SDRAM, so you can keep using your older RAM until you and your budget are ready to move up to DDR RAM. One caveat about the ECS board: I heard a lot of people complain that it will not run stably without a good power supply (rated 28A or higher at 3.3V). I have an Antec 350 PSU that seems to work fine. "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:at8pc5$11mjc5$[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > A friend has asked me for upgrade advice for GTR 2002. His current system > is:- > > Celeron 1GHz Socket 370 > 512MB PC133 SDRAM > Aopen AX6BC BX mainboard (Slot 1 with a Socket 370 adapter) > GeForce 2 GTS > > It performs much better than I expected it to but he'd like to spend about > US$100 on improving it. The reason I'm asking here is that there was some > talk about people hanging in there with their BX mainboards a little while > ago and I thought maybe someone could shed some light on the subject. A

new > mainboard might be an option, but new RAM would blow the budget. > > Any ideas appreciated... > >

Oh...and by the way...I also have a GeForce2 GTS card. Though it works fine (GTR2002 runs fine at 1024x768 with 16 visible cars and a few effects turned down), it is definitely the weak link in the chain. I'll probably upgrade to a newer card in a few months once prices of the 128MB Radeon cards drop a bit. At any rate, if your friend wants to mainly see improvements in game performance, he's probably not going to be happy with any motherboard until he upgrades that video card.

> I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want tosrap > my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going with an > ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a newAthlon > socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for > $86). > > The cool thing about the ECS board is that it has slots for both DDR and > SDRAM, so you can keep using your older RAM until you and your budget are > ready to move up to DDR RAM. This MB is based on an SiS chipset, right? How does it's performance compare to, say, a VIA KT333 or KT400 based system when using DDR-RAM? What speed DDR-RAM can it take advantage of? I guess it would require another case fan going to an Athlon system. My Athlon 2000+ runs ridiculously hot compared to my old Pentium systems.

> This MB is based on an SiS chipset, right? How does it's performance > compare to, say, a VIA KT333 or KT400 based system when using DDR-RAM? I'm still using my old PC133 SDRAM. Perhaps someone else can comment. What > speed DDR-RAM can it take advantage of? PC2100 and PC2700, I believe. > I guess it would require another case fan going to an Athlon system. My > Athlon 2000+ runs ridiculously hot compared to my old Pentium systems. It does run hot, yes. About 18 degrees Celcius above the system temp with the retail heatsink and fan, in my...err...case.

Thanks for all the info. The ECS seems to have gotten some good reviews and my local supplier has them for $50. The only other question I have is whether or not they can use DDR and SDR at the same time?

I also have the ECS board (AMD 1600+/512MB DDR PC2100/GF4Ti4400). Performs wonderfully in all games. I post and read the main sim ng's (flight and driving) and my performance is right there with similar systems with one great benefit - STABILITY (no VIA crap). I've run this rig FLAWLESSLY (just jinxed myself) since Oct. 2001 (thanks also to WinXP). Best system I've ever built regarding stability, value, and performance. I'm fairly certain you CANNOT use DDR/SDR at the same time. Wouldn't be a good idea, PC 2100 is only $125 for 512 MB and the performance is worth the price. BTW, RAM prices are insanely volatile. My 512 Corsair RAM is MORE expensive NOW (I paid $150 - it dropped to $120 - now it's up to $170). -- Joe M. "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PPSJ9.1530$[email hidden]... > Thanks for all the info. The ECS seems to have gotten some good reviews and > my local supplier has them for $50. The only other question I have is > whether or not they can use DDR and SDR at the same time? > >

NO! My mb has both slots and warned that trying to run both could damage the memory. AVOID using two different types of Memory. dave henrie "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PPSJ9.1530$[email hidden]... > Thanks for all the info. The ECS seems to have gotten some good reviewsand > my local supplier has them for $50. The only other question I have is > whether or not they can use DDR and SDR at the same time? > >

"SS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> > > > I guess it would require another case fan going to an Athlon system. My > > Athlon 2000+ runs ridiculously hot compared to my old Pentium systems. > > It does run hot, yes. About 18 degrees Celcius above the system temp with > the retail heatsink and fan, in my...err...case.

When I upgraded from an Athlon 1700 Palomino to an Athlon 2400 thoroughbred, I noticed the CPU temperature went down about 6-10 degrees Farenheit. The Athlon 2400 is, I think, the slowest clocked original Thoroughbred. So if you want a cool system, don't go overboard with the clock frequency and look for chips with smaller processes. My case is a mini-mid tower and only has two fans and they are low-speed Vantec Stealth fans. If I wanted to get any quieter, I'd buy a Zalman powersupply. I could also get a bigger 80mm fan and heatsink unit that would run slower and draw the same amount of air, but I'd blow the warranty on the CPU and I don't want to do that just yet. CPU temperature is about 114F - 122 F, and the motherboard (KT400) is about 104. The new cooler on the GeForce FX looks very nice. Not only will it keep the graphics chip cooler, it will help keep the heat out of the case. I only wish my Radeon 9700 had one, that thing is hot.

> I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want tosrap > my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going with an > ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a newAthlon > socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for > $86). I have the PCCHIPS M830 matherboard. I read on the net that it is same board as ECS K7S5A. In manual it says that board supports athlon processors up to 1400MHz, and nothing of XP CPUs. So what did you do to install yours XP2000+

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> > The cool thing about the ECS board is that it has slots for both DDR and > SDRAM, so you can keep using your older RAM until you and your budget are > ready to move up to DDR RAM. > > One caveat about the ECS board: I heard a lot of people complain that it > will not run stably without a good power supply (rated 28A or higher at > 3.3V). I have an Antec 350 PSU that seems to work fine. >

I'm currently running Duron 800 without a problem, but plan to upgrade soon. Dorjan

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:at8r9u$11ugnj$[email hidden]... > This MB is based on an SiS chipset, right? How does it's performance > compare to, say, a VIA KT333 or KT400 based system when using DDR-RAM?What > speed DDR-RAM can it take advantage of? I'll let the numbers do the talking first: My setup: Asus A7V333 (KT333 chipset) AMD AthlonXP 2000+ 512MB PC2700 MSI GeForce 4 Ti4200 3dMark 2001: 9,500 to 10,700 depending on clocks (stock everything, slow timings to 141FSB, 280/580 on the video card, and fast timings) My roommate's setup: ECS K7S5A (SIS 735 Chipset) AMD AthlonXP 1700+ 512MB PC2100 MSI GeForce 4 Ti4200 (identical to mine) 3dMark 2001: 8,000 to 8,700 depending on clocks (stock to 148FSB; no RAM timing changes, it's cheapo CAS2.5) I know, you're saying now that there's a decent spec gap between there...but even with his clocked up to near mine (the 512MB PC2100 is actually mine...I upgraded to PC2700 because I got it for about $90 on eBay, hehe) he still has the better part of a 1000-point deficit. Does it make a huge difference in games or real-world performance, though? Not really, but it is there and tangible. The SIS735 isn't a bad chipset, but if you're a benchmark whore, you'll see a big difference. FWIW, I also had a K7S5A as my upgrade from the BX board...I got "this" (there's very little left of it now, LOL) computer close to two years ago now, as my dad and I built it originally in '98, with an Abit BH6 and a Celeron 300a @ 464MHz. October 2001, it started gimping out, and went unstable at anything over 300...and 300 was a bit of a crapshoot...dropped in a Celly 900, which toasted itself after 3 months *grr*...and got a K7S5A / Duron 1.2 to replace it. Which I kept for...LOL...four months! Replaced the K7S5A with a Gigabyte GA-7VRXP...then the 1.2 with a 2000+...then when I toasted the 7VRXP (screwdriver kill, first ever), with an A7V333... I need to cut myself off soon...and yet I'm already eagerly awaiting the release of the Thoroughbred-B0 steppings of the 1700+ and 1800+. They should be instant 333MHz FSB 2000+ chips... *cackle* Milhouse

"SS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want to srap > my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going with an > ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a new Athlon > socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for > $86). Do you know if this board will fit into a Dell box? I've got a 1Ghz Dimension 4100... - Dave Cook

"Dave Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_5_J9.1730$[email hidden]... > "SS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want tosrap > > my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going withan > > ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a newAthlon > > socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for > > $86). > > Do you know if this board will fit into a Dell box? I've got a 1GhzDimension > 4100... > > - Dave Cook > > Highly doubt it. The main problem is the fact that Dell/Gateway/Everyone else pretty much always use a single connector for all of the front panel... Well, let's put it this way. It'd probably work, if you didn't mind rewiring the case LED's and switches. Given you can find a new case for $40 with a 300W (admittedly low-grade) power supply...which my K7S5A existed quite happily with, at least with a Duron 750... Milhouse

Damien Smith wrote:

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> > Hi, > > A friend has asked me for upgrade advice for GTR 2002. His current system > is:- > > Celeron 1GHz Socket 370 > 512MB PC133 SDRAM > Aopen AX6BC BX mainboard (Slot 1 with a Socket 370 adapter) > GeForce 2 GTS > > It performs much better than I expected it to but he'd like to spend about > US$100 on improving it. The reason I'm asking here is that there was some > talk about people hanging in there with their BX mainboards a little while > ago and I thought maybe someone could shed some light on the subject. A new > mainboard might be an option, but new RAM would blow the budget. > > Any ideas appreciated...

Well, 100 dollars isn't a lot to work with.....he could get a half decent vid card, like an ATI R8500LE (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/4187-1.htm) or maybe a GF4 TI 4200 64 MB (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/4739-1.htm), but a Cel 1000 isn't too much to write home about when it comes to sim racing, so looking for an old VIA KT133A based MoBo might be a good idea and then drop an Athlon XP1700+ in there You can still find boards like the ASUS A7V133C (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/2/3078-1.htm) out there for about 50 dollars or less, spend the rest on the CPU (http://www.pricewatch.com/1/3/4105-1.htm) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"dmocinic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:at9nek$9oo5$[email hidden]... > > I had a BX MB and was in a similar situation recently. Didn't want to > srap > > my entire setup...just wanted a new MB and CPU. I ended up going withan > > ECS K7S5A motherboard (roughly $55 US through newegg.com), and a new > Athlon > > socket A processor (I found an Athlon XP 2000+ with heatsink and fan for > > $86). > > I have the PCCHIPS M830 matherboard. I read on the net that it is sameboard > as ECS K7S5A. In manual it says that board supports athlon processors upto > 1400MHz, and nothing of XP CPUs. So what did you do to install yoursXP2000+ > Usually a bios update does the trick. The manual was probably printed before XP chips existed so it couldn't mention XP2000+. My ECS board supported AMD 1800+ (at least - I don't recall exactly) out of the box over a year ago and now supports 2400+ (at least) with a bios flash. -- Joe M.

> Usually a bios update does the trick. The manual was probably printed > before XP chips existed so it couldn't mention XP2000+. My ECS board > supported AMD 1800+ (at least - I don't recall exactly) out of the boxover > a year ago and now supports 2400+ (at least) with a bios flash. > > -- > Joe M. Thx Dorjan

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 00:05:51 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote something like this: >Damien Smith wrote:<snip>

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>> Celeron 1GHz Socket 370 >> 512MB PC133 SDRAM >> Aopen AX6BC BX mainboard (Slot 1 with a Socket 370 adapter) >> GeForce 2 GTS >> >> It performs much better than I expected it to but he'd like to spend about >> US$100 on improving it. The reason I'm asking here is that there was some

<snip>

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>Well, 100 dollars isn't a lot to work with.....he could get a half >decent vid card, like an ATI R8500LE >(http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/4187-1.htm) or maybe a GF4 TI 4200 64 MB >(http://www.pricewatch.com/1/37/4739-1.htm), but a Cel 1000 isn't too >much to write home about when it comes to sim racing, so looking for an >old VIA KT133A based MoBo might be a good idea and then drop an Athlon >XP1700+ in there

If overclocking doesn't scare you, I'd try how far that Celeron will go... if you get 200-300MHz more out of it, then get the Radeon 8500LE. If not, get a new mobo & cpu now, and a new graphics card later on. -- - Igor -