RASCAR : Homestead Recap

Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he will tell me some of his driving secrets. :) I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the car. LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanks for taking me out of my misery. Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first turn. Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't "go" when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar sandwitch. All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. Ya'll take care and happy holidays. grubbat

I forgot to save that replay right before the server discoed. If anyone could send me a replay of that last restart I would be grateful. Just want to make sure I was not at fault. "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he will > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the

car. > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanksfor > taking me out of my misery. > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first turn. > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't"go"

Quoted text (11 lines)

> when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > sandwitch. > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > grubbat > > >

Just wanted to thank the RASCAR guys for some great races this season.. Only made 3 of them! Let me apologize to all the racers as I think i hit them all during the race. John Simmons I about ran through his door spun him in the wall and he never even MF'ed me once. hehe.. It was on purpose john and although we disagree here you guys never brought it to the track. Also I think i hit Grubbat and there as an incident with the #27 car. Tim White got robbed what can i say.. Leading all of us most of the race and yellow flag comes out with 4 to go.. Well it tuned out to be a one lap race. I had nothing to lose as I left the start. 1st gear gone all race so I had to start in 2nd.. The 3rd place driver about got me.. Than I go to pass Tim on the back stretch and he block me.. I would of done the same.. But he gave me an opening so I drove it and locked it up in turns 3 and 4.. it was a drag race out of the I won by half a car. I felt good and Ifelt bad for Tim. but thats racing! -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he will > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the car. > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanks for > taking me out of my misery. > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first turn. > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't "go" > when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > sandwitch. > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > grubbat > > > >

Ah, so THAT's what you were talking about :) Like I said during the race, you disappeared from in front of me, and I never saw you again. I never felt any impact nor even realized there was any. My car never got a scratch. Well, at least no more than it already had which were considerable from my barrell-roll earlier on. I thought you just got disconnected and went bye bye. -Larry "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he will > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the

car. > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanksfor > taking me out of my misery. > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first turn. > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't"go"

Quoted text (11 lines)

> when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > sandwitch. > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > grubbat > > >

I looked at it, and it really doesn't look that eventful really. One car hit the rear of another on the restart. I didn't note who was who. All I know is I mashed the gas the instant things went green. Not sure why that transpired behind me. -Larry "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dMAB9.13305$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> I forgot to save that replay right before the server discoed. If anyone > could send me a replay of that last restart I would be grateful. Just want > to make sure I was not at fault. > > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he

will

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the > car. > > > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanks > for > > taking me out of my misery. > > > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first

turn.

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't > "go" > > when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > > sandwitch. > > > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > > > grubbat > > > > > > > > >

John, Was that you that got caught up in my incident? If so, or whoever it was, sorry about that. I came off turn 4 (or was it 2? I forget) and clipped the inner curb just a tad too much. You have to touch it to get a good escape off the corner there, but I got a bit too much of it and the rear came around. I had it almost saved, and then all of a sudden it hooked on me and sent me to the right hard into the wall. I started a barrell-roll from there and I think someone got caught up in it. Again, sorry! I've never had a car hook quite that bad before. It was quite violent. -Larry "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S9CB9.300535$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Just wanted to thank the RASCAR guys for some great races this season.. > Only > made 3 of them! Let me apologize to all the racers as I think i hit them > all during > the race. John Simmons I about ran through his door spun him in the wall > and > he never even MF'ed me once. hehe.. It was on purpose john and although we > disagree here you guys never brought it to the track. Also I think i hit > Grubbat > and there as an incident with the #27 car. Tim White got robbed what can

i > say.. Leading all of us most of the race and yellow flag comes out with > 4 to go.. Well it tuned out to be a one lap race. I had nothing to loseas > I > left the start. 1st gear gone all race so I had to start in 2nd.. The 3rd > place > driver about got me.. Than I go to pass Tim on the back stretch and he > block me.. I would of done the same.. But he gave me an opening so > I drove it and locked it up in turns 3 and 4.. it was a drag race out ofthe > I won by half a car. I felt good and Ifelt bad for Tim. but thatsracing!

Quoted text (19 lines)

> > -- > Donald Wilshe > 888 588-9207 > Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog > Library > www.martelbros.com > Other Interest: > www.ivga.com > www.games-advertising.com > www.whra.com > > > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he

will

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the > car. > > > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanks > for > > taking me out of my misery. > > > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first

turn.

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't > "go" > > when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > > sandwitch. > > > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > > > grubbat > > > > > > > > > >

my error.. i said was on purpose ...John Mean wasnt on purpose. never mean to hit you.. daaa... Don -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S9CB9.300535$[email hidden]... > Just wanted to thank the RASCAR guys for some great races this season.. > Only > made 3 of them! Let me apologize to all the racers as I think i hit them > all during > the race. John Simmons I about ran through his door spun him in the wall > and > he never even MF'ed me once. hehe.. It was on purpose john and although we > disagree here you guys never brought it to the track. Also I think i hit > Grubbat > and there as an incident with the #27 car. Tim White got robbed what can i > say.. Leading all of us most of the race and yellow flag comes out with > 4 to go.. Well it tuned out to be a one lap race. I had nothing to lose as > I > left the start. 1st gear gone all race so I had to start in 2nd.. The 3rd > place > driver about got me.. Than I go to pass Tim on the back stretch and he > block me.. I would of done the same.. But he gave me an opening so > I drove it and locked it up in turns 3 and 4.. it was a drag race out of the > I won by half a car. I felt good and Ifelt bad for Tim. but thats racing! > > -- > Donald Wilshe > 888 588-9207 > Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog > Library > www.martelbros.com > Other Interest: > www.ivga.com > www.games-advertising.com > www.whra.com > > > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out of > > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he will > > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the > car. > > > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems. Thanks > for > > taking me out of my misery. > > > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first turn. > > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone didn't > "go" > > when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke a nascar > > sandwitch. > > > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > > > grubbat > > > > > > > > > > >

Yes Larry, it was me that got caught up. And yeah, Don, you did drive through my door. And last but not least, I tapped Mitch coming out of turn four near the end of the race. It's called "racing at Homestead". I wish there hadn't been 14 cautions... Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every week... :)

The secret to being fast is what Juilan Data told me 8 years ago. You have to treat the gas pedal like a soft breast. Just Squeeze it. Dont mash it and she will go down faster! Hope that helps John it gave me pleasure! -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yes Larry, it was me that got caught up. > > And yeah, Don, you did drive through my door. > > And last but not least, I tapped Mitch coming out of turn four near > the end of the race. > > It's called "racing at Homestead". I wish there hadn't been 14 > cautions... > > Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are > so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets > guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every > week... > > :) > >

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are >so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets >guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every >week... And Ginger... Of course, *all* you guys are too f'king fast to me. That's one reason I stopped caring about the races... I need to do some thinking about if I'm even going to continue hosting them. I really don't give a shit anymore... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are > >so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets > >guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every > >week... > > And Ginger... > Of course, *all* you guys are too f'king fast to me. That's one reason I > stopped caring about the races...

Can you imagine how much faster they'd be if we allowed open setups? > I need to do some thinking about if I'm even going to continue hosting them. I > really don't give a shit anymore... That'd be a bummer. Then I'd probably have to do something like join OLR or something, and I really don't want to do that any more than I want to return to pickup racing...

I just wanted to see how far back I was. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O6DB9.14281$[email hidden]... > I looked at it, and it really doesn't look that eventful really. One car > hit the rear of another on the restart. I didn't note who was who. > > All I know is I mashed the gas the instant things went green. Not surewhy

Quoted text (8 lines)

> that transpired behind me. > > -Larry > > "jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dMAB9.13305$[email hidden]... > > I forgot to save that replay right before the server discoed. If anyone > > could send me a replay of that last restart I would be grateful. Just

want

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > to make sure I was not at fault. > > > > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Well, Homestead is finally over <sigh>. > > > > > > Congrats to Don for the win and T.White for driving the dog mess out

of

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > every single race this season. Now that the season is over, maybe he > will > > > tell me some of his driving secrets. :) > > > > > > I practiced all week for this race and never felt comfortable with the > > car. > > > > > > LTB rearended me when I warped and started having motor problems.

Thanks

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > for > > > taking me out of my misery. > > > > > > Had a late yellow and when the green flew, only one lap to go. On the > > > restart, several 'got into one another' and wrecked before the first > turn. > > > Glad I didn't participate in that gathering. Apparently, someone

didn't > > "go" > > > when the green flew, and someone behind them made the slow-poke anascar

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > > sandwitch. > > > > > > All in all, a fun for me and I hope we can do this again. > > > > > > Ya'll take care and happy holidays. > > > > > > grubbat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On 17 Nov 2002 05:44:34 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

Quoted text (15 lines)

>In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are >>so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets >>guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every >>week... > >And Ginger... >Of course, *all* you guys are too f'king fast to me. That's one reason I >stopped caring about the races... >I need to do some thinking about if I'm even going to continue hosting them. I >really don't give a shit anymore... > >Eldred

Well, I hope you decide to keep hosting. I look forward to the RASCAR race every week. Are we going to run next week? Brian Oster

David Krol has an uncapped T1 sitting in his office virtually unused. Anyone who wants to run leagues on it probably could, def RASCAR. So if Eldred decides to take a break let him know. I'm not crazy about non-points based racing w/out rules, but RASCAR gives me a great chance to test for the one other league I am in, which is on Mondays. After 8 years of online racing I'm probably burned out on it, or I would also get back into open setups. In any case, I can't recall when I've ever seen so little flaming online than with you guys. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I need to do some thinking about if I'm even going to continue hosting them. I > really don't give a shit anymore... That'd be a bummer. Then I'd probably have to do something like join OLR or something, and I really don't want to do that any more than I want to return to pickup racing...

Thank you Don, To say I was bummed to see those cautions would be highly understated. But with the lead I had I should've raced that last run smarter and plan on the usual last minute cautions by saving my tires. I had enough of a lead, and actually considered it, but then my evil side started tapping on my shoulder calling me a 'chicken' lol :) -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:S9CB9.300535$[email hidden]... Tim White got robbed what can i say.. Leading all of us most of the race and yellow flag comes out with 4 to go.. Well it tuned out to be a one lap race. I had nothing to lose as I left the start ...

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 17 Nov 2002 05:44:34 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, JohnSimmons

Quoted text (11 lines)

> ><[email hidden]> writes: > > > >>Like everyone else, I'm curious to know how Tim and Mike Grandy are > >>so fuckin fast week in and week out. How about sharing your secrets > >>guys. It can't be all that fun running up front by yourself every > >>week... > > > >And Ginger... > >Of course, *all* you guys are too f'king fast to me. That's one reason I > >stopped caring about the races... > >I need to do some thinking about if I'm even going to continue hosting

them. I

Quoted text (8 lines)

> >really don't give a shit anymore... > > > >Eldred > > Well, I hope you decide to keep hosting. I look forward to the RASCAR > race every week. Are we going to run next week? > > Brian Oster

Just a quick thanks for hosting Eldred. I've only ran a few races with you guys, then got too busy to put in the practice needed to keep up. Tried Homestead, but couldn't get under 38sec, so figured I'd stay out of that one! Tom

>Are we going to run next week? Oh I hope so Mr Oster. I hope so

In article <HEUB9.64800$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> David Krol has an uncapped T1 sitting in his office virtually > unused. Anyone who wants to run leagues on it probably could, > def RASCAR. So if Eldred decides to take a break let him know. > > I'm not crazy about non-points based racing w/out rules, but > RASCAR gives me a great chance to test for the one other > league I am in, which is on Mondays. After 8 years of online > racing I'm probably burned out on it, or I would also get back > into open setups.

Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim). > In any case, I can't recall when I've ever seen so little > flaming online than with you guys. Well, we have our moments...

On 18 Nov 2002 00:57:32 GMT, [email hidden] (Bamadano) wrote: >>Are we going to run next week? > >Oh I hope so Mr Oster. I hope so Hmm, whats that supposed to mean? Brian Oster

John, Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. I've been racing so long online that even when a new sim comes out, it's just a matter of adapting. I will tell you there are plenty of people who are easily better than I am. I just joined OLR and have only raced there a few times. At Phoenix two of them waxed me. One guy left me in a draft at Texas ! And don't forget what Krol did to Mike and I at Charlotte; man that was embarasing. I know people online cheat but unless I have proof it is pointless to wonder about it. If I want it bad enough I'll just have to work harder. (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) But a few thoughts to ponder about skill versus experience: Wheel lock: With any setup, especially fixed racing, lowering it makes you fast in a sprint but kills your tire wear. So unless I'm goofing, I only lower it for qualifying. The reason Papy lets you change the lock in fixed setup racing is to cover (in theory) the many different wheels available. But in the game, and I think N2002 overdoes this effect, the wheel lock for any given setup is fairly specific to that setup, or whoevers style who created it. Basically this means someone can setup a car with a very loose lock and it runs good but if you change the lock too much you won't be able to drive the car at all and vice versa. But what is also true about wheel lock, and especially for fixed setups, is if you can raise the lock about 2-3 clicks from where it was designed, and still turn the car, then whenever the car gets out of shape and you have to brake check, the car won't spin out of control. It absolutely will if you lower the lock. This really helped me at Rockingham for example when I would get too close to the apron and hit it in 3-4. I wouldn't loose the car. I know Mike also has an ECCI wheel like I do, and I'm sure he can use his better than I can use mine, but with it you can adjust the spring load tension in it, giving you a way to fine tune the steering control, without having to lower the wheel lock or even be able to raise it. For tire wear, or oversteering a car, the game only knows how you turn the car based on the wheel lock, not how freely your physical wheel actually turns. I can calibrate my wheel with a very low range which is supposed to be better for the sim. For these reasons I'll never sell this wheel. Not even an $800 TSW like David's can do that. At Homestead I ran a 15 lock for qual, and did a 46. In race trim I raised it to 19. The default is 18. The one time on Saturday I self spun by hitting the apron in 1-2 trying to get underneath Brian on fresh tires. I gased it, did a 360 spin, barely tapped the wall with no damage. As it brought out the caution I checked my tires and they looked like I hadn't spun at all. Technically, I didn't have to pit. Game Options: For reasons unknown to me, certain auto help options are an advantage at certain tracks. This was not true in earlier sims. At the Glen, when I got the pole before we had to restart the race I had either steering or tracking on, I can't remember which. I couldn't turn the very fastest laps but my lap times were so consistant it was scary. But I used common sense: remember when we had to restart that race? There was no way I belonged up front so I purposely backed off in qualifying since it was so obvious I would hinder the truly fast guys. I started 7th, and ended up finishing 3rd I believe, right about where I belonged. Without the auto help, I could have been just as victim to inexperience with 11 turns as anyone else. And consisitency always beats speed at a road course. At the Rock I used braking control, and I used it at Phoenix. In N2, even N4, if you used any of these controls you'd get left behind but Papy so screwed up the modeling in N2002 I feel it is my job to make a mockery of it. Driving Mode: I know Mike and David drive incar but I don't, never did. 4 reasons: 1) I like seeing all the graphics in a game and you cannot enjoy all that from incar :) 2) I can see a wreck way before they do. I have a better chance of avoiding problems caused by smoke then they can. (Not saying I always actually avoid the wreck lol) 3) Most people who cannot drive in arcade mode say so because they cannot judge their rear corners. And they do not depend on the F2 screen as much as they should. Since I've been driving this way for 8 years now, I can pretty much tell how fast someone is closing, the difference between a close .1 and an honest .1 second, and I can see your right front fender on my screen. I can see how smoothly I need to come down into a turn to not hit you unless you don't brake. Call it playing chicken, but I can watch the bottom left of my screen half the time I am in or near a turn. Not saying I'm great, this just means I can make you work as hard as I want to to make you pass me without overdriving my car, and, if your honest about it, you'll just think I'm that smooth and fair. Having said this, there is no way I think I could do what Mike and David do because they are at least as good at cornering, if not better. This is just the way I drive. 4) I can get that car right up to the wall and never have to steer away from it. I can tell when its okay to actually scrub the wall and it not hurt or damage the car. If I were incar I would have to either back off the gas or oversteer. This really helps on worn tires. (Ask Krol sometime about how we met at Texas in the NROS :) Being consistent and not oversteering: David has done the race schools at Lowes, and we watch each other drive with the sim. It always surprises me how often David remarks about how smooth and how little I turn a wheel, even on his equipment. This may be a result of all the above factors, but I have never been one to drive a car hard. I never was competitive in any sprint racing online. Back in the days of TEN, teammates could not drive my cars because they were so loose. They were even so loose for me, that at the start of a race, I'd spend the first 5+ laps trying to let eveyone passed me safely without wrecking them. But 30-40 laps later it was like 'hello remember me?' :) All this is to say even though everyone tells you to not oversteer or overdrive a car, and many may think they are at least competent at it, most are probably not; and most probably turn the wheel too much. Heck I think I turn it too much :) Years ago, when I was testing and racing open setups I would, as were many others, test 20-30 hours in one week on just one setup, one track. You'd get to the point where you would have to make one small change and, say at Charlotte, make a 50 lap run just to see what the tires did on lap 60. You know how your driving on a highway, maybe even just coming home from work, and all of a sudden, you realize you don't remember anything about the last few miles, or streets, you don't even remember looking for the green light? During those days of testing setups, it'd get to the point where I would loose concentration, almost fall asleep during many laps, so I would turn damage off so to not have to restart a whole test. What I'm sure happened as a result of this was getting a real experience for what being consistent really means. Only by habit can I turn lap after lap without wild mistakes. Braking: This can be entirely track dependant but in theory, you should do most your braking before you turn the wheel. How I try to imploy this is to learn and remember where my marks are, and brake hard, turn, then feather the brake to fine-tune the entry. Can't always do this either because of the track or traffic, but the more you can brake before the majority of the wheel turn the better. The real skill in saving your tires in competition in my opnion is to be able to hit your normal marks, with braking then turning the wheel, while racing in heavy, close, traffic. Easy on fresh tires: The only other thing you can do with a fixed setup, other than being consistent lap after lap, is do your darnest not to drive the setup too hard on fresh tires. I mean to a point of exaggeration. I tested Rockingham with and without the braking help. I ran 70 laps both ways and looked at the total time from lap 1 to 70. With the braking help I was a tick faster early and late in the run so when I checked the overall time I was shocked to see only .3 seconds total difference over 70 laps. Also, there was only a 2 lap difference where the RF went yellow. But I stuck with the braking help because of traffic. When I had to jam that car down low in the middle of a turn it stuck. Otherwise it had no affect on lap times or tire wear. Now, at Homestead, although you just lightly tap the brakes there, auto braking actually gave me slightly worse tire wear. Go figure. But at both tracks, I could shorten the time the RF would go yellow by as much as 10 laps in testing by driving it harder. Not so much dirttracking but just hitting my marks a tick later, braking harder and shorter, and trying to hold the same line thru the turn. Practice and experiement but once you get to the race, race with what you tested: One caution about using auto options, playing with the lock etc: Some of it is pretty damn tricky to get comfortable with. One of the guys who was so fast at Pheonix on OLR would just leave my ass exiting 2 and 4 like I was standing still. I noticed he could not increase his lead on a long run but he was so fast on fresh tires. He ran a 28.30 qual run. I think I was a 49 in RASCAR. So I watched him in a live replay from his car during another practice and sure enough the pimp was shifting. It helped the car turn exiting so easily the first 5 times I tried it I self spun. Perhaps after a week or so I could've figured out a wheel lock and sping load package to make that work for me but the point is I never thought of shifting with that crap setup. Hell 3rd winds so high your only there for a moment. But someone figured it out with a lot of practice. Other than always insisting on racing against very fast people, and measuring your progress against them, I can't thnk of anything else. :) Having raced you enough, and several others in RASCAR, I would bet if you and either myself, David, or Mike were to make like 20-30 50 lap runs at a given track, you'd be surpised how much better you would get. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim).

In article <Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John, > > Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. Would it be okay with you if I posted this stuff on the roster page?

Wow... "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]... John, Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. I've been racing so long online that even when a new sim comes out, it's just a matter of adapting. I will tell you there are plenty of people who are easily better than I am. I just joined OLR and have only raced there a few times. At Phoenix two of them waxed me. One guy left me in a draft at Texas ! And don't forget what Krol did to Mike and I at Charlotte; man that was embarasing. I know people online cheat but unless I have proof it is pointless to wonder about it. If I want it bad enough I'll just have to work harder. (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) But a few thoughts to ponder about skill versus experience: Wheel lock: With any setup, especially fixed racing, lowering it makes you fast in a sprint but kills your tire wear. So unless I'm goofing, I only lower it for qualifying. The reason Papy lets you change the lock in fixed setup racing is to cover (in theory) the many different wheels available. But in the game, and I think N2002 overdoes this effect, the wheel lock for any given setup is fairly specific to that setup, or whoevers style who created it. Basically this means someone can setup a car with a very loose lock and it runs good but if you change the lock too much you won't be able to drive the car at all and vice versa. But what is also true about wheel lock, and especially for fixed setups, is if you can raise the lock about 2-3 clicks from where it was designed, and still turn the car, then whenever the car gets out of shape and you have to brake check, the car won't spin out of control. It absolutely will if you lower the lock. This really helped me at Rockingham for example when I would get too close to the apron and hit it in 3-4. I wouldn't loose the car. I know Mike also has an ECCI wheel like I do, and I'm sure he can use his better than I can use mine, but with it you can adjust the spring load tension in it, giving you a way to fine tune the steering control, without having to lower the wheel lock or even be able to raise it. For tire wear, or oversteering a car, the game only knows how you turn the car based on the wheel lock, not how freely your physical wheel actually turns. I can calibrate my wheel with a very low range which is supposed to be better for the sim. For these reasons I'll never sell this wheel. Not even an $800 TSW like David's can do that. At Homestead I ran a 15 lock for qual, and did a 46. In race trim I raised it to 19. The default is 18. The one time on Saturday I self spun by hitting the apron in 1-2 trying to get underneath Brian on fresh tires. I gased it, did a 360 spin, barely tapped the wall with no damage. As it brought out the caution I checked my tires and they looked like I hadn't spun at all. Technically, I didn't have to pit. Game Options: For reasons unknown to me, certain auto help options are an advantage at certain tracks. This was not true in earlier sims. At the Glen, when I got the pole before we had to restart the race I had either steering or tracking on, I can't remember which. I couldn't turn the very fastest laps but my lap times were so consistant it was scary. But I used common sense: remember when we had to restart that race? There was no way I belonged up front so I purposely backed off in qualifying since it was so obvious I would hinder the truly fast guys. I started 7th, and ended up finishing 3rd I believe, right about where I belonged. Without the auto help, I could have been just as victim to inexperience with 11 turns as anyone else. And consisitency always beats speed at a road course. At the Rock I used braking control, and I used it at Phoenix. In N2, even N4, if you used any of these controls you'd get left behind but Papy so screwed up the modeling in N2002 I feel it is my job to make a mockery of it. Driving Mode: I know Mike and David drive incar but I don't, never did. 4 reasons: 1) I like seeing all the graphics in a game and you cannot enjoy all that from incar :) 2) I can see a wreck way before they do. I have a better chance of avoiding problems caused by smoke then they can. (Not saying I always actually avoid the wreck lol) 3) Most people who cannot drive in arcade mode say so because they cannot judge their rear corners. And they do not depend on the F2 screen as much as they should. Since I've been driving this way for 8 years now, I can pretty much tell how fast someone is closing, the difference between a close .1 and an honest .1 second, and I can see your right front fender on my screen. I can see how smoothly I need to come down into a turn to not hit you unless you don't brake. Call it playing chicken, but I can watch the bottom left of my screen half the time I am in or near a turn. Not saying I'm great, this just means I can make you work as hard as I want to to make you pass me without overdriving my car, and, if your honest about it, you'll just think I'm that smooth and fair. Having said this, there is no way I think I could do what Mike and David do because they are at least as good at cornering, if not better. This is just the way I drive. 4) I can get that car right up to the wall and never have to steer away from it. I can tell when its okay to actually scrub the wall and it not hurt or damage the car. If I were incar I would have to either back off the gas or oversteer. This really helps on worn tires. (Ask Krol sometime about how we met at Texas in the NROS :) Being consistent and not oversteering: David has done the race schools at Lowes, and we watch each other drive with the sim. It always surprises me how often David remarks about how smooth and how little I turn a wheel, even on his equipment. This may be a result of all the above factors, but I have never been one to drive a car hard. I never was competitive in any sprint racing online. Back in the days of TEN, teammates could not drive my cars because they were so loose. They were even so loose for me, that at the start of a race, I'd spend the first 5+ laps trying to let eveyone passed me safely without wrecking them. But 30-40 laps later it was like 'hello remember me?' :) All this is to say even though everyone tells you to not oversteer or overdrive a car, and many may think they are at least competent at it, most are probably not; and most probably turn the wheel too much. Heck I think I turn it too much :) Years ago, when I was testing and racing open setups I would, as were many others, test 20-30 hours in one week on just one setup, one track. You'd get to the point where you would have to make one small change and, say at Charlotte, make a 50 lap run just to see what the tires did on lap 60. You know how your driving on a highway, maybe even just coming home from work, and all of a sudden, you realize you don't remember anything about the last few miles, or streets, you don't even remember looking for the green light? During those days of testing setups, it'd get to the point where I would loose concentration, almost fall asleep during many laps, so I would turn damage off so to not have to restart a whole test. What I'm sure happened as a result of this was getting a real experience for what being consistent really means. Only by habit can I turn lap after lap without wild mistakes. Braking: This can be entirely track dependant but in theory, you should do most your braking before you turn the wheel. How I try to imploy this is to learn and remember where my marks are, and brake hard, turn, then feather the brake to fine-tune the entry. Can't always do this either because of the track or traffic, but the more you can brake before the majority of the wheel turn the better. The real skill in saving your tires in competition in my opnion is to be able to hit your normal marks, with braking then turning the wheel, while racing in heavy, close, traffic. Easy on fresh tires: The only other thing you can do with a fixed setup, other than being consistent lap after lap, is do your darnest not to drive the setup too hard on fresh tires. I mean to a point of exaggeration. I tested Rockingham with and without the braking help. I ran 70 laps both ways and looked at the total time from lap 1 to 70. With the braking help I was a tick faster early and late in the run so when I checked the overall time I was shocked to see only .3 seconds total difference over 70 laps. Also, there was only a 2 lap difference where the RF went yellow. But I stuck with the braking help because of traffic. When I had to jam that car down low in the middle of a turn it stuck. Otherwise it had no affect on lap times or tire wear. Now, at Homestead, although you just lightly tap the brakes there, auto braking actually gave me slightly worse tire wear. Go figure. But at both tracks, I could shorten the time the RF would go yellow by as much as 10 laps in testing by driving it harder. Not so much dirttracking but just hitting my marks a tick later, braking harder and shorter, and trying to hold the same line thru the turn. Practice and experiement but once you get to the race, race with what you tested: One caution about using auto options, playing with the lock etc: Some of it is pretty damn tricky to get comfortable with. One of the guys who was so fast at Pheonix on OLR would just leave my ass exiting 2 and 4 like I was standing still. I noticed he could not increase his lead on a long run but he was so fast on fresh tires. He ran a 28.30 qual run. I think I was a 49 in RASCAR. So I watched him in a live replay from his car during another practice and sure enough the pimp was shifting. It helped the car turn exiting so easily the first 5 times I tried it I self spun. Perhaps after a week or so I could've figured out a wheel lock and sping load package to make that work for me but the point is I never thought of shifting with that crap setup. Hell 3rd winds so high your only there for a moment. But someone figured it out with a lot of practice. Other than always insisting on racing against very fast people, and measuring your progress against them, I can't thnk of anything else. :) Having raced you enough, and several others in RASCAR, I would bet if you and either myself, David, or Mike were to make like 20-30 50 lap runs at a given track, you'd be surpised how much better you would get. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim).

> (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've > known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) If David Krol is running up front he's def cheating, and you can tell him I said so, and you can also tell him he still sucks on the road courses...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Goy, I've known you a long time. But I've known David longer. There is no way he cheats. He wouldn't know how. You, on the other hand, have made several comments about how you know how to cheat but I don't see anyone labeling YOU a cheater. Your talking about a guy who can barely do spreadsheets, once tried to uninstall explorer, and could not tell you what video drivers he uses. I have PCanywhere set up with him and his office because I consult for him. If he were even the type I would know it. And since he is CRS for Flashpoint I would say Joe Lomas doesn't have a problem with him either. So you can beleive what you want but if you think he cheats you might as well be calling me a cheater as well. I'm sure someone who can make such a ridicules statement without any knowledge should be at least able to comprehend that there are some people who run fast, and David is not THAT fast, who consider it a compliment when they are labeled a cheater. David is neither. Probably you don't like him because he doesn't take crap from people on the track but in either case, perhaps you can keep your personal issues to yourself, offer proof, or otherwise just be petty with someone else. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've > known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) If David Krol is running up front he's def cheating, and you can tell him I said so, and you can also tell him he still sucks on the road courses......

Sure -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... In article <Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > John, > > Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. Would it be okay with you if I posted this stuff on the roster page?

Tim, if you had told David (Dave13) exactly what I said here he would have had a good laugh over it, tell him that I said hi and that he still sucks at the road courses :-) You getting old Tim, thought you had better memory than this ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy <------ex Team Mirage "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

I mistook your post Goy, I should've known you were just kidding. David is having to deal with a lot of stuff with all the responsibility he has right now at Flashpoint so maybe I was probably too sensitive about it. btw, Team Mirage got to the point where it had so many members I would glady be too old to recall all that lol My apologies, -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Tim, if you had told David (Dave13) exactly what I said here he would have had a good laugh over it, tell him that I said hi and that he still sucks at the road courses :-) You getting old Tim, thought you had better memory than this ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy <------ex Team Mirage "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes: >Well, I hope you decide to keep hosting. I look forward to the RASCAR >race every week. Are we going to run next week? No. Maybe a full race thanksgiving weekend, or during the christmas holiday... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

No apology needed Tim, cheating is a hot issue, I was just so sure you remembered that David and I used to be teammates that I figured it would be kinda funny David has always been pretty quick and has no need to cheat, I think it comes naturally to him or something, don't think he practices that much really Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and race. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]... John, Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. I've been racing so long online that even when a new sim comes out, it's just a matter of adapting. I will tell you there are plenty of people who are easily better than I am. I just joined OLR and have only raced there a few times. At Phoenix two of them waxed me. One guy left me in a draft at Texas ! And don't forget what Krol did to Mike and I at Charlotte; man that was embarasing. I know people online cheat but unless I have proof it is pointless to wonder about it. If I want it bad enough I'll just have to work harder. (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) But a few thoughts to ponder about skill versus experience: Wheel lock: With any setup, especially fixed racing, lowering it makes you fast in a sprint but kills your tire wear. So unless I'm goofing, I only lower it for qualifying. The reason Papy lets you change the lock in fixed setup racing is to cover (in theory) the many different wheels available. But in the game, and I think N2002 overdoes this effect, the wheel lock for any given setup is fairly specific to that setup, or whoevers style who created it. Basically this means someone can setup a car with a very loose lock and it runs good but if you change the lock too much you won't be able to drive the car at all and vice versa. But what is also true about wheel lock, and especially for fixed setups, is if you can raise the lock about 2-3 clicks from where it was designed, and still turn the car, then whenever the car gets out of shape and you have to brake check, the car won't spin out of control. It absolutely will if you lower the lock. This really helped me at Rockingham for example when I would get too close to the apron and hit it in 3-4. I wouldn't loose the car. I know Mike also has an ECCI wheel like I do, and I'm sure he can use his better than I can use mine, but with it you can adjust the spring load tension in it, giving you a way to fine tune the steering control, without having to lower the wheel lock or even be able to raise it. For tire wear, or oversteering a car, the game only knows how you turn the car based on the wheel lock, not how freely your physical wheel actually turns. I can calibrate my wheel with a very low range which is supposed to be better for the sim. For these reasons I'll never sell this wheel. Not even an $800 TSW like David's can do that. At Homestead I ran a 15 lock for qual, and did a 46. In race trim I raised it to 19. The default is 18. The one time on Saturday I self spun by hitting the apron in 1-2 trying to get underneath Brian on fresh tires. I gased it, did a 360 spin, barely tapped the wall with no damage. As it brought out the caution I checked my tires and they looked like I hadn't spun at all. Technically, I didn't have to pit. Game Options: For reasons unknown to me, certain auto help options are an advantage at certain tracks. This was not true in earlier sims. At the Glen, when I got the pole before we had to restart the race I had either steering or tracking on, I can't remember which. I couldn't turn the very fastest laps but my lap times were so consistant it was scary. But I used common sense: remember when we had to restart that race? There was no way I belonged up front so I purposely backed off in qualifying since it was so obvious I would hinder the truly fast guys. I started 7th, and ended up finishing 3rd I believe, right about where I belonged. Without the auto help, I could have been just as victim to inexperience with 11 turns as anyone else. And consisitency always beats speed at a road course. At the Rock I used braking control, and I used it at Phoenix. In N2, even N4, if you used any of these controls you'd get left behind but Papy so screwed up the modeling in N2002 I feel it is my job to make a mockery of it. Driving Mode: I know Mike and David drive incar but I don't, never did. 4 reasons: 1) I like seeing all the graphics in a game and you cannot enjoy all that from incar :) 2) I can see a wreck way before they do. I have a better chance of avoiding problems caused by smoke then they can. (Not saying I always actually avoid the wreck lol) 3) Most people who cannot drive in arcade mode say so because they cannot judge their rear corners. And they do not depend on the F2 screen as much as they should. Since I've been driving this way for 8 years now, I can pretty much tell how fast someone is closing, the difference between a close .1 and an honest .1 second, and I can see your right front fender on my screen. I can see how smoothly I need to come down into a turn to not hit you unless you don't brake. Call it playing chicken, but I can watch the bottom left of my screen half the time I am in or near a turn. Not saying I'm great, this just means I can make you work as hard as I want to to make you pass me without overdriving my car, and, if your honest about it, you'll just think I'm that smooth and fair. Having said this, there is no way I think I could do what Mike and David do because they are at least as good at cornering, if not better. This is just the way I drive. 4) I can get that car right up to the wall and never have to steer away from it. I can tell when its okay to actually scrub the wall and it not hurt or damage the car. If I were incar I would have to either back off the gas or oversteer. This really helps on worn tires. (Ask Krol sometime about how we met at Texas in the NROS :) Being consistent and not oversteering: David has done the race schools at Lowes, and we watch each other drive with the sim. It always surprises me how often David remarks about how smooth and how little I turn a wheel, even on his equipment. This may be a result of all the above factors, but I have never been one to drive a car hard. I never was competitive in any sprint racing online. Back in the days of TEN, teammates could not drive my cars because they were so loose. They were even so loose for me, that at the start of a race, I'd spend the first 5+ laps trying to let eveyone passed me safely without wrecking them. But 30-40 laps later it was like 'hello remember me?' :) All this is to say even though everyone tells you to not oversteer or overdrive a car, and many may think they are at least competent at it, most are probably not; and most probably turn the wheel too much. Heck I think I turn it too much :) Years ago, when I was testing and racing open setups I would, as were many others, test 20-30 hours in one week on just one setup, one track. You'd get to the point where you would have to make one small change and, say at Charlotte, make a 50 lap run just to see what the tires did on lap 60. You know how your driving on a highway, maybe even just coming home from work, and all of a sudden, you realize you don't remember anything about the last few miles, or streets, you don't even remember looking for the green light? During those days of testing setups, it'd get to the point where I would loose concentration, almost fall asleep during many laps, so I would turn damage off so to not have to restart a whole test. What I'm sure happened as a result of this was getting a real experience for what being consistent really means. Only by habit can I turn lap after lap without wild mistakes. Braking: This can be entirely track dependant but in theory, you should do most your braking before you turn the wheel. How I try to imploy this is to learn and remember where my marks are, and brake hard, turn, then feather the brake to fine-tune the entry. Can't always do this either because of the track or traffic, but the more you can brake before the majority of the wheel turn the better. The real skill in saving your tires in competition in my opnion is to be able to hit your normal marks, with braking then turning the wheel, while racing in heavy, close, traffic. Easy on fresh tires: The only other thing you can do with a fixed setup, other than being consistent lap after lap, is do your darnest not to drive the setup too hard on fresh tires. I mean to a point of exaggeration. I tested Rockingham with and without the braking help. I ran 70 laps both ways and looked at the total time from lap 1 to 70. With the braking help I was a tick faster early and late in the run so when I checked the overall time I was shocked to see only .3 seconds total difference over 70 laps. Also, there was only a 2 lap difference where the RF went yellow. But I stuck with the braking help because of traffic. When I had to jam that car down low in the middle of a turn it stuck. Otherwise it had no affect on lap times or tire wear. Now, at Homestead, although you just lightly tap the brakes there, auto braking actually gave me slightly worse tire wear. Go figure. But at both tracks, I could shorten the time the RF would go yellow by as much as 10 laps in testing by driving it harder. Not so much dirttracking but just hitting my marks a tick later, braking harder and shorter, and trying to hold the same line thru the turn. Practice and experiement but once you get to the race, race with what you tested: One caution about using auto options, playing with the lock etc: Some of it is pretty damn tricky to get comfortable with. One of the guys who was so fast at Pheonix on OLR would just leave my ass exiting 2 and 4 like I was standing still. I noticed he could not increase his lead on a long run but he was so fast on fresh tires. He ran a 28.30 qual run. I think I was a 49 in RASCAR. So I watched him in a live replay from his car during another practice and sure enough the pimp was shifting. It helped the car turn exiting so easily the first 5 times I tried it I self spun. Perhaps after a week or so I could've figured out a wheel lock and sping load package to make that work for me but the point is I never thought of shifting with that crap setup. Hell 3rd winds so high your only there for a moment. But someone figured it out with a lot of practice. Other than always insisting on racing against very fast people, and measuring your progress against them, I can't thnk of anything else. :) Having raced you enough, and several others in RASCAR, I would bet if you and either myself, David, or Mike were to make like 20-30 50 lap runs at a given track, you'd be surpised how much better you would get. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim).

Grandy you want me to send you another copy of mouse.exe. hehe -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0trC9.145571$[email hidden]... He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and race. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]... John, Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. I've been racing so long online that even when a new sim comes out, it's just a matter of adapting. I will tell you there are plenty of people who are easily better than I am. I just joined OLR and have only raced there a few times. At Phoenix two of them waxed me. One guy left me in a draft at Texas ! And don't forget what Krol did to Mike and I at Charlotte; man that was embarasing. I know people online cheat but unless I have proof it is pointless to wonder about it. If I want it bad enough I'll just have to work harder. (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) But a few thoughts to ponder about skill versus experience: Wheel lock: With any setup, especially fixed racing, lowering it makes you fast in a sprint but kills your tire wear. So unless I'm goofing, I only lower it for qualifying. The reason Papy lets you change the lock in fixed setup racing is to cover (in theory) the many different wheels available. But in the game, and I think N2002 overdoes this effect, the wheel lock for any given setup is fairly specific to that setup, or whoevers style who created it. Basically this means someone can setup a car with a very loose lock and it runs good but if you change the lock too much you won't be able to drive the car at all and vice versa. But what is also true about wheel lock, and especially for fixed setups, is if you can raise the lock about 2-3 clicks from where it was designed, and still turn the car, then whenever the car gets out of shape and you have to brake check, the car won't spin out of control. It absolutely will if you lower the lock. This really helped me at Rockingham for example when I would get too close to the apron and hit it in 3-4. I wouldn't loose the car. I know Mike also has an ECCI wheel like I do, and I'm sure he can use his better than I can use mine, but with it you can adjust the spring load tension in it, giving you a way to fine tune the steering control, without having to lower the wheel lock or even be able to raise it. For tire wear, or oversteering a car, the game only knows how you turn the car based on the wheel lock, not how freely your physical wheel actually turns. I can calibrate my wheel with a very low range which is supposed to be better for the sim. For these reasons I'll never sell this wheel. Not even an $800 TSW like David's can do that. At Homestead I ran a 15 lock for qual, and did a 46. In race trim I raised it to 19. The default is 18. The one time on Saturday I self spun by hitting the apron in 1-2 trying to get underneath Brian on fresh tires. I gased it, did a 360 spin, barely tapped the wall with no damage. As it brought out the caution I checked my tires and they looked like I hadn't spun at all. Technically, I didn't have to pit. Game Options: For reasons unknown to me, certain auto help options are an advantage at certain tracks. This was not true in earlier sims. At the Glen, when I got the pole before we had to restart the race I had either steering or tracking on, I can't remember which. I couldn't turn the very fastest laps but my lap times were so consistant it was scary. But I used common sense: remember when we had to restart that race? There was no way I belonged up front so I purposely backed off in qualifying since it was so obvious I would hinder the truly fast guys. I started 7th, and ended up finishing 3rd I believe, right about where I belonged. Without the auto help, I could have been just as victim to inexperience with 11 turns as anyone else. And consisitency always beats speed at a road course. At the Rock I used braking control, and I used it at Phoenix. In N2, even N4, if you used any of these controls you'd get left behind but Papy so screwed up the modeling in N2002 I feel it is my job to make a mockery of it. Driving Mode: I know Mike and David drive incar but I don't, never did. 4 reasons: 1) I like seeing all the graphics in a game and you cannot enjoy all that from incar :) 2) I can see a wreck way before they do. I have a better chance of avoiding problems caused by smoke then they can. (Not saying I always actually avoid the wreck lol) 3) Most people who cannot drive in arcade mode say so because they cannot judge their rear corners. And they do not depend on the F2 screen as much as they should. Since I've been driving this way for 8 years now, I can pretty much tell how fast someone is closing, the difference between a close .1 and an honest .1 second, and I can see your right front fender on my screen. I can see how smoothly I need to come down into a turn to not hit you unless you don't brake. Call it playing chicken, but I can watch the bottom left of my screen half the time I am in or near a turn. Not saying I'm great, this just means I can make you work as hard as I want to to make you pass me without overdriving my car, and, if your honest about it, you'll just think I'm that smooth and fair. Having said this, there is no way I think I could do what Mike and David do because they are at least as good at cornering, if not better. This is just the way I drive. 4) I can get that car right up to the wall and never have to steer away from it. I can tell when its okay to actually scrub the wall and it not hurt or damage the car. If I were incar I would have to either back off the gas or oversteer. This really helps on worn tires. (Ask Krol sometime about how we met at Texas in the NROS :) Being consistent and not oversteering: David has done the race schools at Lowes, and we watch each other drive with the sim. It always surprises me how often David remarks about how smooth and how little I turn a wheel, even on his equipment. This may be a result of all the above factors, but I have never been one to drive a car hard. I never was competitive in any sprint racing online. Back in the days of TEN, teammates could not drive my cars because they were so loose. They were even so loose for me, that at the start of a race, I'd spend the first 5+ laps trying to let eveyone passed me safely without wrecking them. But 30-40 laps later it was like 'hello remember me?' :) All this is to say even though everyone tells you to not oversteer or overdrive a car, and many may think they are at least competent at it, most are probably not; and most probably turn the wheel too much. Heck I think I turn it too much :) Years ago, when I was testing and racing open setups I would, as were many others, test 20-30 hours in one week on just one setup, one track. You'd get to the point where you would have to make one small change and, say at Charlotte, make a 50 lap run just to see what the tires did on lap 60. You know how your driving on a highway, maybe even just coming home from work, and all of a sudden, you realize you don't remember anything about the last few miles, or streets, you don't even remember looking for the green light? During those days of testing setups, it'd get to the point where I would loose concentration, almost fall asleep during many laps, so I would turn damage off so to not have to restart a whole test. What I'm sure happened as a result of this was getting a real experience for what being consistent really means. Only by habit can I turn lap after lap without wild mistakes. Braking: This can be entirely track dependant but in theory, you should do most your braking before you turn the wheel. How I try to imploy this is to learn and remember where my marks are, and brake hard, turn, then feather the brake to fine-tune the entry. Can't always do this either because of the track or traffic, but the more you can brake before the majority of the wheel turn the better. The real skill in saving your tires in competition in my opnion is to be able to hit your normal marks, with braking then turning the wheel, while racing in heavy, close, traffic. Easy on fresh tires: The only other thing you can do with a fixed setup, other than being consistent lap after lap, is do your darnest not to drive the setup too hard on fresh tires. I mean to a point of exaggeration. I tested Rockingham with and without the braking help. I ran 70 laps both ways and looked at the total time from lap 1 to 70. With the braking help I was a tick faster early and late in the run so when I checked the overall time I was shocked to see only .3 seconds total difference over 70 laps. Also, there was only a 2 lap difference where the RF went yellow. But I stuck with the braking help because of traffic. When I had to jam that car down low in the middle of a turn it stuck. Otherwise it had no affect on lap times or tire wear. Now, at Homestead, although you just lightly tap the brakes there, auto braking actually gave me slightly worse tire wear. Go figure. But at both tracks, I could shorten the time the RF would go yellow by as much as 10 laps in testing by driving it harder. Not so much dirttracking but just hitting my marks a tick later, braking harder and shorter, and trying to hold the same line thru the turn. Practice and experiement but once you get to the race, race with what you tested: One caution about using auto options, playing with the lock etc: Some of it is pretty damn tricky to get comfortable with. One of the guys who was so fast at Pheonix on OLR would just leave my ass exiting 2 and 4 like I was standing still. I noticed he could not increase his lead on a long run but he was so fast on fresh tires. He ran a 28.30 qual run. I think I was a 49 in RASCAR. So I watched him in a live replay from his car during another practice and sure enough the pimp was shifting. It helped the car turn exiting so easily the first 5 times I tried it I self spun. Perhaps after a week or so I could've figured out a wheel lock and sping load package to make that work for me but the point is I never thought of shifting with that crap setup. Hell 3rd winds so high your only there for a moment. But someone figured it out with a lot of practice. Other than always insisting on racing against very fast people, and measuring your progress against them, I can't thnk of anything else. :) Having raced you enough, and several others in RASCAR, I would bet if you and either myself, David, or Mike were to make like 20-30 50 lap runs at a given track, you'd be surpised how much better you would get. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim).

Lol, you asshole. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zJrC9.334020$[email hidden]... Grandy you want me to send you another copy of mouse.exe. hehe -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0trC9.145571$[email hidden]... He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and race. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vi0C9.59527$[email hidden]... John, Really, all I can tell you is seat time. Mike would tell you the same. I've been racing so long online that even when a new sim comes out, it's just a matter of adapting. I will tell you there are plenty of people who are easily better than I am. I just joined OLR and have only raced there a few times. At Phoenix two of them waxed me. One guy left me in a draft at Texas ! And don't forget what Krol did to Mike and I at Charlotte; man that was embarasing. I know people online cheat but unless I have proof it is pointless to wonder about it. If I want it bad enough I'll just have to work harder. (I do know for a fact David and Mike don't cheat lol - David is one of my closest friends and I built his pc and have access to it all the time since he is not that pc literate and I've known Mike for years - his reputation proceeds him) But a few thoughts to ponder about skill versus experience: Wheel lock: With any setup, especially fixed racing, lowering it makes you fast in a sprint but kills your tire wear. So unless I'm goofing, I only lower it for qualifying. The reason Papy lets you change the lock in fixed setup racing is to cover (in theory) the many different wheels available. But in the game, and I think N2002 overdoes this effect, the wheel lock for any given setup is fairly specific to that setup, or whoevers style who created it. Basically this means someone can setup a car with a very loose lock and it runs good but if you change the lock too much you won't be able to drive the car at all and vice versa. But what is also true about wheel lock, and especially for fixed setups, is if you can raise the lock about 2-3 clicks from where it was designed, and still turn the car, then whenever the car gets out of shape and you have to brake check, the car won't spin out of control. It absolutely will if you lower the lock. This really helped me at Rockingham for example when I would get too close to the apron and hit it in 3-4. I wouldn't loose the car. I know Mike also has an ECCI wheel like I do, and I'm sure he can use his better than I can use mine, but with it you can adjust the spring load tension in it, giving you a way to fine tune the steering control, without having to lower the wheel lock or even be able to raise it. For tire wear, or oversteering a car, the game only knows how you turn the car based on the wheel lock, not how freely your physical wheel actually turns. I can calibrate my wheel with a very low range which is supposed to be better for the sim. For these reasons I'll never sell this wheel. Not even an $800 TSW like David's can do that. At Homestead I ran a 15 lock for qual, and did a 46. In race trim I raised it to 19. The default is 18. The one time on Saturday I self spun by hitting the apron in 1-2 trying to get underneath Brian on fresh tires. I gased it, did a 360 spin, barely tapped the wall with no damage. As it brought out the caution I checked my tires and they looked like I hadn't spun at all. Technically, I didn't have to pit. Game Options: For reasons unknown to me, certain auto help options are an advantage at certain tracks. This was not true in earlier sims. At the Glen, when I got the pole before we had to restart the race I had either steering or tracking on, I can't remember which. I couldn't turn the very fastest laps but my lap times were so consistant it was scary. But I used common sense: remember when we had to restart that race? There was no way I belonged up front so I purposely backed off in qualifying since it was so obvious I would hinder the truly fast guys. I started 7th, and ended up finishing 3rd I believe, right about where I belonged. Without the auto help, I could have been just as victim to inexperience with 11 turns as anyone else. And consisitency always beats speed at a road course. At the Rock I used braking control, and I used it at Phoenix. In N2, even N4, if you used any of these controls you'd get left behind but Papy so screwed up the modeling in N2002 I feel it is my job to make a mockery of it. Driving Mode: I know Mike and David drive incar but I don't, never did. 4 reasons: 1) I like seeing all the graphics in a game and you cannot enjoy all that from incar :) 2) I can see a wreck way before they do. I have a better chance of avoiding problems caused by smoke then they can. (Not saying I always actually avoid the wreck lol) 3) Most people who cannot drive in arcade mode say so because they cannot judge their rear corners. And they do not depend on the F2 screen as much as they should. Since I've been driving this way for 8 years now, I can pretty much tell how fast someone is closing, the difference between a close .1 and an honest .1 second, and I can see your right front fender on my screen. I can see how smoothly I need to come down into a turn to not hit you unless you don't brake. Call it playing chicken, but I can watch the bottom left of my screen half the time I am in or near a turn. Not saying I'm great, this just means I can make you work as hard as I want to to make you pass me without overdriving my car, and, if your honest about it, you'll just think I'm that smooth and fair. Having said this, there is no way I think I could do what Mike and David do because they are at least as good at cornering, if not better. This is just the way I drive. 4) I can get that car right up to the wall and never have to steer away from it. I can tell when its okay to actually scrub the wall and it not hurt or damage the car. If I were incar I would have to either back off the gas or oversteer. This really helps on worn tires. (Ask Krol sometime about how we met at Texas in the NROS :) Being consistent and not oversteering: David has done the race schools at Lowes, and we watch each other drive with the sim. It always surprises me how often David remarks about how smooth and how little I turn a wheel, even on his equipment. This may be a result of all the above factors, but I have never been one to drive a car hard. I never was competitive in any sprint racing online. Back in the days of TEN, teammates could not drive my cars because they were so loose. They were even so loose for me, that at the start of a race, I'd spend the first 5+ laps trying to let eveyone passed me safely without wrecking them. But 30-40 laps later it was like 'hello remember me?' :) All this is to say even though everyone tells you to not oversteer or overdrive a car, and many may think they are at least competent at it, most are probably not; and most probably turn the wheel too much. Heck I think I turn it too much :) Years ago, when I was testing and racing open setups I would, as were many others, test 20-30 hours in one week on just one setup, one track. You'd get to the point where you would have to make one small change and, say at Charlotte, make a 50 lap run just to see what the tires did on lap 60. You know how your driving on a highway, maybe even just coming home from work, and all of a sudden, you realize you don't remember anything about the last few miles, or streets, you don't even remember looking for the green light? During those days of testing setups, it'd get to the point where I would loose concentration, almost fall asleep during many laps, so I would turn damage off so to not have to restart a whole test. What I'm sure happened as a result of this was getting a real experience for what being consistent really means. Only by habit can I turn lap after lap without wild mistakes. Braking: This can be entirely track dependant but in theory, you should do most your braking before you turn the wheel. How I try to imploy this is to learn and remember where my marks are, and brake hard, turn, then feather the brake to fine-tune the entry. Can't always do this either because of the track or traffic, but the more you can brake before the majority of the wheel turn the better. The real skill in saving your tires in competition in my opnion is to be able to hit your normal marks, with braking then turning the wheel, while racing in heavy, close, traffic. Easy on fresh tires: The only other thing you can do with a fixed setup, other than being consistent lap after lap, is do your darnest not to drive the setup too hard on fresh tires. I mean to a point of exaggeration. I tested Rockingham with and without the braking help. I ran 70 laps both ways and looked at the total time from lap 1 to 70. With the braking help I was a tick faster early and late in the run so when I checked the overall time I was shocked to see only .3 seconds total difference over 70 laps. Also, there was only a 2 lap difference where the RF went yellow. But I stuck with the braking help because of traffic. When I had to jam that car down low in the middle of a turn it stuck. Otherwise it had no affect on lap times or tire wear. Now, at Homestead, although you just lightly tap the brakes there, auto braking actually gave me slightly worse tire wear. Go figure. But at both tracks, I could shorten the time the RF would go yellow by as much as 10 laps in testing by driving it harder. Not so much dirttracking but just hitting my marks a tick later, braking harder and shorter, and trying to hold the same line thru the turn. Practice and experiement but once you get to the race, race with what you tested: One caution about using auto options, playing with the lock etc: Some of it is pretty damn tricky to get comfortable with. One of the guys who was so fast at Pheonix on OLR would just leave my ass exiting 2 and 4 like I was standing still. I noticed he could not increase his lead on a long run but he was so fast on fresh tires. He ran a 28.30 qual run. I think I was a 49 in RASCAR. So I watched him in a live replay from his car during another practice and sure enough the pimp was shifting. It helped the car turn exiting so easily the first 5 times I tried it I self spun. Perhaps after a week or so I could've figured out a wheel lock and sping load package to make that work for me but the point is I never thought of shifting with that crap setup. Hell 3rd winds so high your only there for a moment. But someone figured it out with a lot of practice. Other than always insisting on racing against very fast people, and measuring your progress against them, I can't thnk of anything else. :) Having raced you enough, and several others in RASCAR, I would bet if you and either myself, David, or Mike were to make like 20-30 50 lap runs at a given track, you'd be surpised how much better you would get. -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Is there any way you could tell us how you're so consistently fastest every week? You win almost every race you run in, even with fairly substantial damage (thanks in no small part to the amazingly weak damage model in the sim).

In article <0trC9.145571$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> writes: >He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = >wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = >racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = >experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = >race. 4-5 hours a DAY?!? Damn, how do you(or how DID you) have that kind of time? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > In article <0trC9.145571$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = > >wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = > >racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = > >experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = > >race. > > 4-5 hours a DAY?!? Damn, how do you(or how DID you) have that kind of time?

I used to do that too, explains why I don't have much of a social life anymore :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Owned my own business that didn't require all my attention. Not that it wouldn't have helped. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <0trC9.145571$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = > >wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = > >racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = > >experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = > >race. > > 4-5 hours a DAY?!? Damn, how do you(or how DID you) have that kind of time? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+6.19 > N2002 Rank:+18.91 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:24 GMT, Mike Grandy wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C28FA9.F5E58560 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = > wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = > racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = > experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = > race. > >

Hey Mike, please learn to quote posts you're replying to. Adding a five line witty comment to 700 more lines of mixed quoted text and HTML gibberish doesn't make you look too clever. Yep, it's the usenet police. Say hello to TOFU Larry ;-) Cheers & TIA, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:17:03 GMT, Don Wilshe wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01C28FAC.6C094950 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Grandy you want me to send you another copy of mouse.exe. hehe > > > --=20 > Donald Wilshe

and you, don. uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On 20 Nov 2002 05:42:12 GMT, EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> In article <0trC9.145571$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = >>wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = >>racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = >>experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = >>race. > > 4-5 hours a DAY?!? Damn, how do you(or how DID you) have that kind of time? > > Eldred

As I said: He'd better spend his time studying some links on usenetiquette like this one: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html ;-) cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:50:57 GMT, Mike Grandy wrote: > Owned my own business that didn't require all my attention. Not that it > wouldn't have helped. (-: > He he, did you race while those substances took their time boiling in the basement? I'm a home brewer myself, I can well relate to that ;-) cheers uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Here's more for you. Hope it hurts your eyes. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 19 Nov 2002 13:59:24 GMT, Mike Grandy wrote: > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > > ------=_NextPart_000_00F7_01C28FA9.F5E58560 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > He cheat, don't believe a word he says. He's Wilshe and Huggins all = > > wrapped into one. (-: Lol, j/k. Tim has always been a great online = > > racer. It's all in the time you put into it and alot of it is just plain = > > experience. I used to practice 4-5 hours a day, now I just show up and = > > race. > > > > > > Hey Mike, please learn to quote posts you're replying to. > Adding a five line witty comment to 700 more lines of mixed > quoted text and HTML gibberish doesn't make you look too > clever. Yep, it's the usenet police. Say hello to TOFU Larry ;-) > > Cheers & TIA, > > uwe > > -- > mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 20:16:05 GMT, Mike Grandy wrote: > Here's more for you. Hope it hurts your eyes. <PLONK> -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Uwe Schuerkamp" wrote... > <snip> > <PLONK> Muscling in on my territory? ;-) Jan./ official RAS plonker =---

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:55:57 GMT, Jan Verschueren wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> "Uwe Schuerkamp" wrote... >> <snip> >> <PLONK> > > Muscling in on my territory? ;-) > > Jan./ official RAS plonker

hehe! Well, I'm sure Mr. Grandy will do everything possible to defend his top spot in TofuRank, so we won't forget him for a while. More on that next week when the new rankings are due. It really is a shame because sometimes those folks might have to say something interesting or have a question we could help out with... Cheers, Uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61