live for speed with FF

I downloaded the demo to try it out. It seems OK, but I really don't like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the speed sensitive steering turned off. It needs some kind of "power steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too much. With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the speed sensitive steering.

That sounds like an interesting complaint. I wonder, would the cars in LFS so far even be power steering or no? Maybe they aren't power steering, and some of the other cars they are going to release are going to be? I know what you mean though. You do feel EVERYTHING through the steering. Maybe it's to make up for the lack of other senses, like the seat-of-the-pants feeling. Maybe post it to the devs, seems like a good observation. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "e f" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I downloaded the demo to try it out. It seems OK, but I really don't > like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the > speed sensitive steering turned off. It needs some kind of "power > steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets > transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too > much. With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the > speed sensitive steering.

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> I downloaded the demo to try it out. It seems OK, but I really don't > like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the > speed sensitive steering turned off. It needs some kind of "power > steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets > transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too > much. With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the > speed sensitive steering.

I love feeling everything on the road. My LWFF doesn't have the most powerful FF, so it's certainly not overpowering in LFS. I guess it's possible that people who have very powerful FF wheels like the momo might struggle with it, but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effects in the wheels own software. Using speed sensitive steering seems a very strange way of curbing road feedback to me.

I like the feel of this sim on my MOMO. One of the best driving games as far as FF goes IMO. The cars really feel heavy, like I am driving a car, not a pixel. Todd "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kr2z9.72812$[email hidden]...

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> > I downloaded the demo to try it out. It seems OK, but I really don't > > like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the > > speed sensitive steering turned off. It needs some kind of "power > > steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets > > transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too > > much. With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the > > speed sensitive steering. > > I love feeling everything on the road. My LWFF doesn't have the most

powerful > FF, so it's certainly not overpowering in LFS. I guess it's possible that > people who have very powerful FF wheels like the momo might struggle withit, > but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effectsin > the wheels own software. Using speed sensitive steering seems a verystrange > way of curbing road feedback to me. > >

"Damien Smith" wrote > but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effectsin > the wheels own software. There you go :-) You'd be surprised how many people don't realize that "overall device gain", "spring gain" and "damper gain" are there for a reason and it's OK to use them. Many games perform better with them turned down to 40 or 50 percent. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<kr2z9.72812$[email hidden]>... > I love feeling everything on the road. My LWFF doesn't have the most powerful > FF, so it's certainly not overpowering in LFS. I guess it's possible that > people who have very powerful FF wheels like the momo might struggle with it, > but frankly, there's nothing to stop you from lowering the overall effects in > the wheels own software. Using speed sensitive steering seems a very strange > way of curbing road feedback to me. When was the last car that didn't have power steering? Even NASCAR's have power steering. I have one of those big Momo's, the new ones. The force feedback is great in a rally game, but I don't find it all that great to have to fight the wheel all the time in road driving games. Gran Prix Legends especially can be pretty "ragged" in the force feedback if you don't have enough damping- it seems like the wheel gets "stuck" alot (BTW, I just drive the trainers around in that game 'cause I am a wuss.. heheheh). I know, probably should have bought a non-FF wheel, right?

e f wrote:

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> I downloaded the demo to try it out. It seems OK, but I really don't > like the force feedback feel- it's like driving Sports Car GT with the > speed sensitive steering turned off. It needs some kind of "power > steering" feel, otherwise every little force in the road gets > transmtitted to the wheel and you have to muscle around the wheel too > much. With SCGT, you get a road feel, but it's heavily reduced by the > speed sensitive steering.

I haven't had to muscle the wheel in LFS at all. I get a lot of feedback through the wheel, but a feeling that the wheels are attached to the ground isn't one of them. A steering wheel should have a natural tendency to center itself (to an extent) and a fair amount of pressure to turn the wheel, neither of which do I find in LFS. I wish there was a constant force on the wheel that would convince me that the rubber meets the road. When exactly do you have to 'muscle' the wheel?

Internet User <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<3dcf17d4$[email hidden]>...

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> I haven't had to muscle the wheel in LFS at all. I get a lot of > feedback through the wheel, but a feeling that the wheels are attached > to the ground isn't one of them. A steering wheel should have a natural > tendency to center itself (to an extent) and a fair amount of pressure > to turn the wheel, neither of which do I find in LFS. I wish there was > a constant force on the wheel that would convince me that the rubber > meets the road. When exactly do you have to 'muscle' the wheel?

I'm using the new Momo wheel (rubber, not leather). It can put out a quite strong force, I've got it at 100 percent, not 150, though, but it's still pretty strong. Maybe "muscle" isn't the right word- keep in mind I don't really like tightly gripping the wheel. It just feel really ragged, not smooth- sharp transitions from high-grip to low-grip and the wheel has a sticky, jerking feeling to it. I had the same problem in GPL until I turned up the damping in the core.ini (I pretty much suck at that game, but I digress...). Power/Speed sensitive steering in Sports Car GT seems to have smoothed out this effect, I suspect it works by introducing additional forces into the effects, or possibly filtering them. I can feel when the car is about to loose grip, but the force doesn't jerk the wheel at the same time, it's very subdued. You can also feel little bumps in the road and some of the movement- it just seems more realistic (based on the few times I have driven real cars). I use a small amount of centering force in LFS, BTW. It always seems unnatural to have a wheel with no center-spring. It was a toss up for me between Force Feedback or not. I could have as easily gone with non-FF, but I wanted to see what it was like.

I have a 2 year old Ferrari Force Feedback wheel and the LFS force feedback is quite simply the best FF I've ever felt in any game. Its smooth, strong and subtle, with loss of grip perfectly detectable. Its an absolute pleasure to drive. I have the in-game force feedback stregth at about 50% and in the Windows control panel my device gain is at 90% with no centering force. I find that centering force covers up the FF the more you turn. You shouldn't need any centering force in LFS as your setup should have enough castor to centre the wheels anyway (after all that's what causes it in a real car). Its really only there for non FF games. Clearly there is major variation between different FF wheels, their drivers and the systems they are running on (just like with any other PC hardware). Which means if you get bad FF in a game you can't be sure the game is at fault whereas if you get fantastic FF you know the game makers got something right! Krunch. --------------------------------------------------- "Crashing is the only thing that Windows does fast" www.krunchspace.com - for sim racing and other gaming stuff. To use email address remove NOJUNK --------------------------------------------------- "e f" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Internet User <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<3dcf17d4$[email hidden]>...

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> > I haven't had to muscle the wheel in LFS at all. I get a lot of > > feedback through the wheel, but a feeling that the wheels are attached > > to the ground isn't one of them. A steering wheel should have a natural > > tendency to center itself (to an extent) and a fair amount of pressure > > to turn the wheel, neither of which do I find in LFS. I wish there was > > a constant force on the wheel that would convince me that the rubber > > meets the road. When exactly do you have to 'muscle' the wheel? > > I'm using the new Momo wheel (rubber, not leather). It can put out > a quite strong force, I've got it at 100 percent, not 150, though, but > it's still pretty strong. > > Maybe "muscle" isn't the right word- keep in mind I don't really > like tightly gripping the wheel. It just feel really ragged, not > smooth- sharp transitions from high-grip to low-grip and the wheel has > a sticky, jerking feeling to it. I had the same problem in GPL until > I turned up the damping in the core.ini (I pretty much suck at that > game, but I digress...). Power/Speed sensitive steering in Sports Car > GT seems to have smoothed out this effect, I suspect it works by > introducing additional forces into the effects, or possibly filtering > them. I can feel when the car is about to loose grip, but the force > doesn't jerk the wheel at the same time, it's very subdued. You can > also feel little bumps in the road and some of the movement- it just > seems more realistic (based on the few times I have driven real > cars). > > I use a small amount of centering force in LFS, BTW. It always > seems unnatural to have a wheel with no center-spring. > > It was a toss up for me between Force Feedback or not. I could have > as easily gone with non-FF, but I wanted to see what it was like.

e f wrote: > > Maybe "muscle" isn't the right word- keep in mind I don't really > like tightly gripping the wheel. It just feel really ragged, not > smooth- sharp transitions from high-grip to low-grip and the wheel has > a sticky, jerking feeling to it. OK. I can agree with you on that point 100%. I have the leather MOMO and it's also 'jerky' and 'sticky' in this game. I hope they're still working on the FF.

I'm in the 'i just love the FFB in LFS completely' camp. Seriously...LFS IMO has the best FF in any game i know. Guillemot Fer FFB wheel here