rec.autos.simulators

Just rebooted and started N4 in single player.  I was qualifying in a
track (geesh - I forget the name, but it's a famous one that starts
with T) and it locked up about 10 seconds into it!  I can hear the
sound, but am frozen.

I was playing it in OpenGL in 16-bit color at 1024x768  with my
desktop set at 16-bit color and 1280x1024.

WTF is up with this game? It is pretty rare that I have problems with
a game.

Specs:

Athlon 700
256MB RAM
Hercules GeForce 2 GTS 64MB Pro
Windows managing my swap file
Windows 98SE
Direct X 8.0a

I don't plan on playing it on-line much, if at all (due to my connect
speed).  I bought it at Software ETC so I now have 3 days left to
return it.

Are there some sound and/or video settings that would make it more
stable?  

Thanks,

-paul

So, I rebooted and just disabled Norton Antivirus this time and was
able to get past the interface and begin qualifying.  It froze IN THE
EXACT SAME SPOT on the track!!  If I move my throttle, I can hear the
difference.  I think the game is still playing but the video is
frozen!!

Man, I thought this sim would be the reason for me to finally get a
wheel. What a piece of junk!!

-pw

--
Don Burnette
D Burnette in N4

Some people do nothing wrong.
The problem is, they do nothing.
And THAT is wrong.

I had the same prob with my Herc Geforce II GTS 64.  My problem was directly
related to my vid card overheating in my small tower case.  In an attempt to
verify this you can simply pop the case open and try to run.  The card runs
very hot.  I think that the game taxes the vid card regardless of which
video mode.  This was even happening to me in the demo of N4.  Cooling seems
to have helped my prob.

My specs:
Thunderbird 1.1ghz
512meg pc133
Hercules Geforce 2 GTS 64
SBLive--> Liveware 3.0
WinME
DX 8.0
No overclocking.

Talon

Hi,

Are you saying that running the game with the case open helped stop
crashing, or did you add another fan?

Thanks,

-pw

I've noticed that.

Hercules board, NVidia chip (64MB DDR GTS Pro).  It is a AGP board.

How do I get into my bios to disable the 4X and operate into 2X (or
check if it's in 4X)?

Hercules 6.35

Thanks for that info!

Whose drivers are these, btw?  They won't***up other games, will
they?  I just played a couple of other games (not sims :-) for hours
last night w/o a single crash.  But, one of them was "UnDying" and it
requires Direct X 8 (and the reason I installed it) so it looks like
that backs up your point about DX8.

Okay, will do!

Not a T-Bird.  I was actually on the cutting edge for a little while.
It's the original Athlon 700 CPU with a Athlon GigaByte GA-IX mobo.

Okay - I will keep it and keep plugging away at it until I get it to
work!

Thanks so much!

-pw

I have Direct Sound checked and 3D unchecked.

I will keep plugging away at it!

After locking up twice in a row with OpenGL at 16 bit color, then
32-bit color, I tried it with D3D in 32 bit color and finished the
qualifying, and then started the race!

I certainly have less problems w/ N4 in D3D and more in OGL.

Thanks,

-pw

For audio cards that use A3D audio chip there appears to be an
incompatibility that causes the KX133 system to deadlock when system traffic
is heavy. The reason for this is that the A3D chip issues one memory read
request cycle to the North Bridge and expects a grant within 4 mico-sec of
latency time. If PCI TRDY# is not asserted after 4 mico-sec, the A3D
hardware will de-assert the FRAME# and REQ# to terminate the operation.
However, the A3D audio software driver cannot acknowledge the termination
and continues waiting for hardware response. Hence the system hangs. This
issue will only occur during heavy system traffic when the North Bridge
cannot grant access to A3D audio chip within the 4 mico-sec latency time.
There is no known work-around for this issue, and the principal advice is
not to use A3D-based sound cards with KX133 based motherboards. Source: VIA
Application note Serial #AN137 Date 07/05/00.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
    So there are documented nails in your electronic road., you simply have
not hit them yet.  Most reports from folks who have hit the nails say it
only happens when the machine is REALLY working hard. 'PW" said he has an
Athlon. That Athlon makes it VERY likely that he has VIA chips on his MB.
Areal Vortex sound cards are very common so he just might have one of them
too. If he does he just might have hit the nails you have, so far, missed.
Just checking.
    Me? I have the KT7/SB Live combination I mentioned. Lots of nails there
too.
    Sounds like PW is only a few days from tossing NASCAR 4 out the window
in disgust. Before we lose him I am just standing here yelling "WAIT A
MINUTE!!!! If you got one of "these" and one of "those" then maby your
trouble is "this" and you need to .........."
    I'm Fishing.

http://www.icrontic.com/faqs/kt7faq/kt7faq.htm

J. Janasov

If you have the board I think you do your board does not support AGP 4X so
disregard. Your board has an "AMD 750 Chipset" consisting of an "AMD 751
PCI/AGP Controler" and an "AMD 756 PCI/ISA/IDE Controler". This gives you
AGP 1X and 2X *BUT* go here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/#hw:gef:troub:inst:athlon

Under "What's all this with the GeForce and the Athlon?" It seems like early
AMD 750 chipsets had trouble with GForce cards and AGP 2X. Because of that
trouble NiVida drivers "switched off" 2X everytime they saw an AMD chipset.
This means you are probably operating at 1X.  That "new version" of the 750
they  talk about in the above link is likely the implementation of sometihng
called "Super Bypass" that you can read about here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The gist of this seems to be that early 750 chipsets were faulty and the
"Super Bypass" did not work. Later production runs corrected the fault but
there was never any recall of the bad chips. I dont know if there is any way
to tell which ones you have but it seems this "shut-off" of 2X that NiVida
built into the GForce drivers cant tell either so it shuts off 2X even if
you have the "good" chips.
    Back at the first link (gforcefaq) a little lower down there is a link
to some regisrty hacks that can turn on 2X. You may or may not want to try
them depending on what chipset (good or bad) you think you have.
     You may also want to forget the whole 1X/2X thing. What I read here
seems to say that the performance diffrence between 1X and 2X is not all
that great so it may not be worth hasseling with. In any case my take on all
of this is that you are NOW operating in AGP 1X because the Herc/NiVida
drivers you installed saw your AMD chips and put you in 1X.  1X should be as
stable as you can get. Until we get NASCAR 4 running it is probably a good
idea leave it at 1X and not mess with that 2X registry hack.

     These are all "Beta Reference Drivers" The term "Beta" roughly means
something that has not been throughly tested and blessed as an "Official
Release". This does not mean they are faulty, just not tested. These drivers
are written by NiVida but because they are not tested and blessed they are
not  supposed to be available but there are always new ones being leaked. If
you call Herc or NiVida about them they will not help you because you are
not supposed to have them in the first place. But the fact remains that
these betas are often better than the "official" drivers.  You will run into
beta drivers that***things up and you will run into beta drivers that
are PERFECT. Only way to really tell which is which on your machine is to
install them and test them yourself.  Nice thing is that they are easy to
uninstall if they do***things up. The 1050 and the 756 are the two
latest "leaks". The 1050 seems fine, I havent tried the 756 yet. You may
want to try others if these dont work out.

Speaking of drivers, go here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

These are the latest drivers for your MoBoard. If you havent already done so
get them all and install them. If you already have these versions and want
to try something else go here:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

     These are AMD drivers straight from AMD like the reference drivers are
straight from NiVida. There are some newer versions there than the ones on
the Gigabite site but looking at the readme's there dosent seem be be
anything that addresses faults for YOUR chipset so I dont they will be any
better for you than the ones on Gigabite. Still, here they are.

That leaves your soundcard drivers. You dont say what soundcard you have but
whatever it is go up on the site and get whatever the latest driver is. It
may just be your sound card and NOT your GForce that is locking you up.

Forget these.

Let me know how things work out with the above. There are other things we
can try but before that I need to know a couple of things. The questions are
below the line. If you dont have any idea what I am asking dont worry about
it. Just say "HUH!?!?!?" and I will let you know how to get the answers.
======================================================================
    A couple of questions. If you have the moboard I think you have (the one
with the "7") I may have some BIOS tweaks for you later. I downloaded your
manual from the Gigabite site but it will take me a bit to go over. You
asked how to get into the BIOS earlier. I take it you have never been in
there. If so:
Has ANYONE EVER been in there and changed anything?
If someone has been in the BIOS has there been any changes to the machine
since they were in there (New card, new OS, more or different ram and such)?
What version of BIOS do you have?
Have you ever flashed a bios?

You are too kind!  Any way, here are some answers for you:

Yes, my manual is incorrect.  I noticed upon boot up that I have a
GA-7IX.F1

I can not tell which file(s) listed there are for me (am using
Win98SE).

That thought had occurred to me.  I was there a few days ago and think
I couldn't find any drivers, or I got frustrated with the site.  I
have a Diamond Monster Sound MX300 (I believe it's an Aureal based
card).  I am running N4 with the DirectSound option  w/o the 3D sound
checked.  Max Voices/Sounds are set at the minimun (8).

I pressed the DEL key while booting and got into the bios menu.

Since my PC arrived about a year and a few months ago I have:

Swapped the original Hercules Prophet 256 GeForce 1 for a Hercules
GeForce 2 MX.  Then, just recently, swapped it for a Hercules GTS 64
MB DDR Pro card.

Went from Direct X 7.0 to Direct X 7.0a, then to Direct X 8.0a.  Tried
the NVidia 6.50 drivers (this is when I had the MX card) but I
couldn't set my desktop to above 1024x768 (I followed the readme
exactly).  Finally was able to get the Herc 6.35 drivers reinstalled.

When I got my Pro card, I uninstalled all of the present drivers and
then installed the 6.35 Herc drivers (I wrote down how I did it, if
you are interested).  Then, I installed DX8.0a a couple of days later.

I am guessing Award Software V1.0A as it flies by on the screen when I
boot up (couldn't find a version number in the bios menu).

Nope!  Heard of the procedure though!  Too scared to try it and don't
really know how :-)

By the way, how come I can qualify and start a race (I think it
eventually crashes after a few laps) in D3D at 1024x768 32-bit color
in a track that starts with a T (from Alabama) but when I run it in
OpenGL at either 16-bit or 32-bit color, without changing any settings
but my desktop colors, it locks up (sound goes on though) at the same
exact place in the track??

Thanks!!!!

-paul