rec.autos.simulators

....and people wonder why we are reluctant to
involve the racing community on a large scale.

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Shawn Wise / Papyrus

You are missing the point. And what about the fact the there are link to
that web site on other racing sites? It's not put on Joe Bloe's the
Redneck website, but Joe Bloe the Redneck will get it from that site
along with others. We were given a chance to influence the "upgrades"
and might loose that chance because some people didn't respect Papyrus
wishes.

Philster

I agree. That was not too bright. What I especially like is that he post
the original message, which specifically asks not to cross post. Some
people really are clueless...

Philster

*snip from simracing website*
These patch(es) are not supported by Sierra Technical Support. Please visit
the discussion board to receive general help.

Shawn Wise / Papyrus

(Surely you didn't mean us, Sean?! - Ed) *end of snip*

You'll have to talk to Ed about that one.  The least he could have done is
spelled your name right, when the correct spelling is in plain sight=P

Brian Fox
http://www.geocities.com/~foxman
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.

reluctant to what ? It's Marc Nelson's site.

The total amount of work he did for the simracing community, keeping people
alert with the updates of Icr2 (his simracing project actually SOLD copies
of Icr2/CART racing because of the interest people showed for the updates
and carsets they created).  Not to mention Sim***world, the TPTCC, and the
whole Theuspits.com family.  What about Alison's site? It's a SRO partner.
Without people like them what would Papyrus be ? Without a community Papyrus
is nothing (but the opposite is true also).  At least he's showing the
correct URL and not just the address for the patch.

I can understand the decision for not having the beta patch public, but
somehow it is a public test of the patch, so why fear a site like SRO ?
It's not Joe Bloe's Redneck N3 site, it's SRO.  And please Im not dissing
anybody at Papyrus here, Im just supporting Marc and understanding that
people like him are essential to the community and Papyrus.

imho...

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

This is unreal! You specifically asked "Please *do not* cross-post
these patch(es) and/or this announcement to public web sites or
newsgroups"
Let it be known that I *did not* post the news on my website. :)
Last thing you need is the whole racing community involved in testing.

Skotty Flynn

http://www.nascar-racing-sims.com (webmaster)
"skotty" on WON

The site is wrong and it should had never been there.  I simply regret
somebody from Papyrus posting this on a public newsgroup.  It should have
never happened, since the situation is between Papyrus and the SRO team.
And I will simply not accept to see a fellow group of people like the SRO
being publicly ridiculed for probably just a misunderstanding and an error.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Sorry this happened. It was really nice of papy to share these patches early
and to let us try and help. I guess this will be the end of that.

At least they left in the direct quote asking not to cross post...too bad
they spelled your name wrong!!!!

I think that you should ask that the item be taken down immediately and
suggest here publicly that if it isn't then your more open patch testing
process for N3 (and other titles) will cease.  Peer pressure will get it
removed pretty quickly.

Sorry...I for one am appreciating the chance to get my hands dirty with the
patches and do not want the opportunity to make sure my issues are addressed
squandered because someone cannot read and comprehend a straightforward
request...even if that person is a big contributor to the community in other
ways.

Marc.

Yes, it's amazing that if you wanted to keep the lid on this thing, that
you would be so irresponsible to post the initial announcement in a
public newsgroup.  Silliest damn thing I've seen from you guys yet -
except when it was posted (here in r.a.s., btw) that the CTS would be
made available as a download.

Also, stirring up a hornet's nest by posting a link to my site and
inferring SRO will be the downfall of all open betas through Papyrus is
pure horseshit.  Your reluctance to embrace those who've supported you
is known only to you and the company.  Trying to sell it as anything
else is sad...I thought better of your crew than to resort to childish
stunts such as this.

I think Papy needs to take a refresher course in public relations.  You
seem to be the class clown this week, care to sign 'em up?

Cheers!

Marc

OK, I guess I am contributing to what could turn into a huge flame war,
but I can understand the post from Papyrus.  It simply points out a
situation that  it explicitly asked us to avoid: don't post this
information on a public web site.  Papy was targeting a very small focus
group, r.a.s. readers, and wanted it to stay that way.  It got out, so
they are trying to prevent further public postings.  And I think the
tongue-in-cheek comment at the bottom of the SRO posting was appropriately
answered with Shawn Wise's comment in this forum.  It was hardly ridicule,
just a little bit of head shaking.

Stephen

:> You are missing the point. And what about the fact the there are link to
:> that web site on other racing sites? It's not put on Joe Bloe's the
:> Redneck website, but Joe Bloe the Redneck will get it from that site
:> along with others. We were given a chance to influence the "upgrades"
:> and might loose that chance because some people didn't respect Papyrus
:> wishes.

: The site is wrong and it should had never been there.  I simply regret
: somebody from Papyrus posting this on a public newsgroup.  It should have
: never happened, since the situation is between Papyrus and the SRO team.
: And I will simply not accept to see a fellow group of people like the SRO
: being publicly ridiculed for probably just a misunderstanding and an error.

Aha.  Too bad it didn't work out then.  Perhaps it was a bit naiive of
Papyrus to think it could stay in a small group.  I think there is no
middle ground between closed beta testing, with non-disclosure agreements,
and fully open beta testing, at least from what I've seen in this
case.  Information just leaks out all over the place on the Internet.  I
sent a note to Marc Nelson to discuss whether or not he should keep it on
his SRO site, but I can see now that it's like the little guy in
Amsterdam.  Stick your finger in one leak on the dam, and two more leaks
spring.

Stephen

: On 19 Nov 1999 07:22:37 GMT,

:> Papy was targeting a very small focus group, r.a.s. readers,
:>and wanted it to stay that way.

: Actually, that wasn't the plan at all. They were targeting a
: small focus group in the n3.discussion newsgroup on
: a private news server at: 206.27.21.29 .

: --
: [ - rrevved at bellsouth dot net - ]

Not the plan?  FWIW, r.a.s. is the biggest single public newsgroup
devoted to racing on the PC.  If Shawn (or Papyrus) wanted a small focus
group, then why post it here...poor planning?

Cheers!

Marc

Then it's a good thing that the original post here at r.a.s. is gone...
JM

Subject: Re: Amazing...

Date: Fri, 19 November 1999 03:44 AM EST

Not the plan?  FWIW, r.a.s. is the biggest single public newsgroup
devoted to racing on the PC.  If Shawn (or Papyrus) wanted a small focus
group, then why post it here...poor planning?

Cheers!

Marc

Yes Ed, Shawn (or someone using Shawn's name for thos with ***
theories ready :-) posted it here too, now there's a way to keep it
within a small group of dedicated N3 racers :-)

I must admit that I was a bit confused when I saw that post myself

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy