Formula T2 Question

Does the T2 formula set-up need one or two joystick ports. I am very keen for an answer. Thanks to anybody who can help. Andrew Easter

says... It runs into one joystick port. I've been very happy with mine. Bill aka BillyJoe (on Hawaii) -------------------------------------------------------------- Centrimedia web development http://www.centrimedia.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------

I just got a T2 and am seriously considering taking it back. It just has such a cheap feel to it. I have a question, does any of the "better" (7 or 8 and up) drivers on Hawaii use it? I figure it'll take ALOT of getting used to at the very least. Phil

says... It only requires one port. The wheel plugs into the pedals, which in turn plug into the port. I highly suggest a true game port though; using one on your sound card can produce flaky results from game to game. -Aaron Taylor

? ?>It runs into one joystick port. I've been very happy with mine. ?> ?>Bill aka BillyJoe (on Hawaii) ?> ?> ? ?I just got a T2 and am seriously considering taking it back. It just has ?such a cheap feel to it. I have a question, does any of the "better" (7 ?or 8 and up) drivers on Hawaii use it? I figure it'll take ALOT of ?getting used to at the very least. Are you seriously talking about the same T2 everyone else is? Granted, it's not made out of Titanium, but for $100, what on earth did you expect?? I find that it's extremely well made for the money, and it's *leagues* ahead of using my $70 joystick. What were you using before that you could be so disappointed with a new T2?? --Evan

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> says... > >Does the T2 formula set-up need one or two joystick ports. > >I am very keen for an answer. Thanks to anybody who can > >help. > It runs into one joystick port. I've been very happy with mine.

I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is used for steering)? On my CH pedal/yoke combo (which is admittedly a compromise to my driving/flying interests) I use X1 for steering and X2, Y2 for brake and throttle, requiring a two port interface. Regards, James.

>I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and >throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is >used for steering)? On the T2, the brake and throttle are the same axis (the brake gets one half of the range, and the throttle gets the other half). Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Sierra On-Line, Inc.

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> > says... > > >Does the T2 formula set-up need one or two joystick ports. > > >I am very keen for an answer. Thanks to anybody who can > > >help. > > It runs into one joystick port. I've been very happy with mine. > I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and > throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is > used for steering)? > On my CH pedal/yoke combo (which is admittedly a compromise to my > driving/flying interests) I use X1 for steering and X2, Y2 for > brake and throttle, requiring a two port interface. > Regards, > James.

Jim, your game card port must suppot 2 joysticks (x/y1 & x/y2)from a single interface. The cables are connected using a master/slave connection. Consult your game card documentation to verify it will support 2 joystick coordinates from a single port.

writes: Evan, For $100 I expected it to beat out my $5 kraft joystick on the first night. (I was mistakenly, obviously) I'll practice ALOT more with it before I comment again. The thing moved off it's clamps more than once and *that* was pretty cruddy. I feel like it'll break after about a hundred hours of use. Does anyone know if the TSW wheel has buttons on the steering wheel itself or is that just the ECC system? Phil

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> >I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and > >throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is > >used for steering)? > On the T2, the brake and throttle are the same axis (the brake gets one > half of the range, and the throttle gets the other half). > Rick Genter > Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II > Sierra On-Line, Inc.

So, it's impossible to brake and accelerate at the same time? Ricardo Oberpaur

>>I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and >>throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is >>used for steering)? >On the T2, the brake and throttle are the same axis (the brake gets one >half of the range, and the throttle gets the other half). Doesn't that mean one >can't< use the brake while on the throttle with the T2? If so, ew. -- http://members.cruzio.com/~keeper/ Funny Looking Little Kitty, 1982-1996

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>Subject: Re: Formula T2 Question >Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:43:43 GMT >> >I don't understand this - how can you use simultaneous brake and >> >throttle with only one analogue channel (given that the other is >> >used for steering)? >> On the T2, the brake and throttle are the same axis (the brake gets one >> half of the range, and the throttle gets the other half). >> Rick Genter >> Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II >> Sierra On-Line, Inc. >So, it's impossible to brake and accelerate at the same time? >Ricardo Oberpaur

I've heard from some people that you CAN. I'm not good at two-footed driving, so I can't comment. But I *do* notice different handling in the car when I try it... ________ Eldred Pickett I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?

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> ?Niemeyer) writes: > ? > ?>It runs into one joystick port. I've been very happy with mine. > ?> > ?>Bill aka BillyJoe (on Hawaii) > ?> > ?> > ? > ?I just got a T2 and am seriously considering taking it back. It just has > ?such a cheap feel to it. I have a question, does any of the "better" (7 > ?or 8 and up) drivers on Hawaii use it? I figure it'll take ALOT of > ?getting used to at the very least. > Are you seriously talking about the same T2 everyone else is? > Granted, it's not made out of Titanium, but for $100, what on earth > did you expect?? I find that it's extremely well made for the money, > and it's *leagues* ahead of using my $70 joystick. What were you > using before that you could be so disappointed with a new T2?? > --Evan

Forget the T2!.....go to http://www.oz.net/~wottenad/wheel.htm This guy will show you how to build your own wheel and pedals that makes the T2 look like a joke. -- Lew Wiegand

The TSW has buttons for up and downshift on the wheel, in addition to a gear shift. Either can be used. Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://www.dcn.ed.ac.uk/pulse/index.htm \::/ \._______\

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> writes: > >Are you seriously talking about the same T2 everyone else is? > >Granted, it's not made out of Titanium, but for $100, what on earth > >did you expect?? I find that it's extremely well made for the money, > >and it's *leagues* ahead of using my $70 joystick. What were you > >using before that you could be so disappointed with a new T2?? > Evan, > For $100 I expected it to beat out my $5 kraft joystick on the first > night. (I was mistakenly, obviously) I'll practice ALOT more with it > before I comment again. The thing moved off it's clamps more than once > and *that* was pretty cruddy. I feel like it'll break after about a > hundred hours of use. Does anyone know if the TSW wheel has buttons on > the steering wheel itself or is that just the ECC system? > Phil

Phil, As for your question, the TSW has buttons on the steernig wheel (OK, that's the steering wheel I saw, maybe it was modified). I'm considering buying an ECC. I asked about the TSW, but somebody told me that, like with the T2, you can't apply brakes and throttle at the same time (that's a shame!). As far as I know, ECC is the only one that supports this feature, but there is some problem with NFS (something about the buttons on the steering wheel). Since I only use F1GP, I'll go for the ECC. Ricardo

(Evan) >> writes: >> >Are you seriously talking about the same T2 everyone else is? >> >Granted, it's not made out of Titanium, but for $100, what on earth >> >did you expect?? I find that it's extremely well made for the money,

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>> >and it's *leagues* ahead of using my $70 joystick. What were you >> >using before that you could be so disappointed with a new T2?? >> Evan, >> For $100 I expected it to beat out my $5 kraft joystick on the first >> night. (I was mistakenly, obviously) I'll practice ALOT more with

it >> before I comment again. The thing moved off it's clamps more than once >> and *that* was pretty cruddy. I feel like it'll break after about a >> hundred hours of use. Does anyone know if the TSW wheel has buttons on

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>> the steering wheel itself or is that just the ECC system? >> Phil >Phil, >As for your question, the TSW has buttons on the steernig wheel (OK,

that's the steering wheel I saw, told me that, like with the T2, you can't as I know, ECC is the only one that about the buttons on the steering wheel). To throw my two cents worth in (which is about a nickel over priced), I also race on a T2. Due to limitations with the desk my computer sits on, I was not able to use the clamp system that comes with the wheel. I modified it to mount on a piece of shelving material about 14' x 14'. I then took the plastic clamps that come with the wheel, drilled and bolted them to the shelf so that the end of the wheel unit just sticks over the edge of the board. I then mount the wheel unit to the board via the screws that come with the wheel, through the plastic clamps. My computer desk has a slide out keyboard tray. I C-clamp the end of the board to the back of the tray. This has provided a very stable platform for the wheel unit, which coinsidently makes it about the same height and position as the wheel in the Austin Healey 3000 we vintage race (ie familiar and comfortable). The room where I have my computer has a vinyl floor, and sliding has been minimal. However, a piece or two of duct tape takes care of and slide problem, probably work on carpet too. The pedal position is not optimal, and taking the unit apart, does not look like the brake pedal could be moved to the open slot on the left side. It is my assumption that the base is probably used for a flight flap/rudder set as well. Thin soled shoes, like driving shoes work well for me, Nike's do not. Now if they would just replicate along with the feel of the car, the feel of a five point harness tugging at you on hard deceleration or acceleration, the wind rush at 150 mph... I ramble on. Jerry

> > On the T2, the brake and throttle are the same axis (the brake gets one > > half of the range, and the throttle gets the other half). > So, it's impossible to brake and accelerate at the same time? > Ricardo Oberpaur No, not that I've seen. I've used both methods and it definitely seems to allow acceleration and braking at the same time. I just gently press on the brake with my left foot while I let off the gas going into the turn. Then, I gently apply gas and let off brake as I come out of the turn. It is smooth like that. When I get off of the gas totally and press on the brake with my right foot, It slows much more and the weight transfer has a more *** effect on the car sometimes. I much prefer to keep one foot on the gas and one on the brake. I also see the RPMs increasing as I give gas with the brake on, but my speed doesn't go up. So in short: it seems like gas and brake can be applied at the same time with the T2. Rob Ryder

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>>> Evan, >>> For $100 I expected it to beat out my $5 kraft joystick on the first >>> night. (I was mistakenly, obviously) I'll practice ALOT more with >it >>> before I comment again. The thing moved off it's clamps more than >once >>> and *that* was pretty cruddy. I feel like it'll break after about a >>> hundred hours of use. Does anyone know if the TSW wheel has >buttons on >>> the steering wheel itself or is that just the ECC system? >>> Phil >>Phil, >>As for your question, the TSW has buttons on the steernig wheel (OK, >that's the steering wheel I saw, >>maybe it was modified). >>I'm considering buying an ECC. I asked about the TSW, but somebody >told me that, like with the T2, you can't >>apply brakes and throttle at the same time (that's a shame!). As far >as I know, ECC is the only one that >>supports this feature, but there is some problem with NFS (something >about the buttons on the steering wheel). >>Since I only use F1GP, I'll go for the ECC. >>Ricardo >To throw my two cents worth in (which is about a nickel over priced), I >also race on a T2. Due to limitations with the desk my computer sits >on, I was not able to use the clamp system that comes with the wheel. >I modified it to mount on a piece of shelving material about 14' x 14'. >I then took the plastic clamps that come with the wheel, drilled and >bolted them to the shelf so that the end of the wheel unit just sticks >over the edge of the board. I then mount the wheel unit to the board >via the screws that come with the wheel, through the plastic clamps. >My computer desk has a slide out keyboard tray. I C-clamp the end of >the board to the back of the tray. This has provided a very stable >platform for the wheel unit, which coinsidently makes it about the same >height and position as the wheel in the Austin Healey 3000 we vintage >race (ie familiar and comfortable). >The room where I have my computer has a vinyl floor, and sliding has >been minimal. However, a piece or two of duct tape takes care of and >slide problem, probably work on carpet too. The pedal position is not >optimal, and taking the unit apart, does not look like the brake pedal >could be moved to the open slot on the left side. It is my assumption >that the base is probably used for a flight flap/rudder set as well. >Thin soled shoes, like driving shoes work well for me, Nike's do not. >Now if they would just replicate along with the feel of the car, the >feel of a five point harness tugging at you on hard deceleration or >acceleration, the wind rush at 150 mph... I ramble on. >Jerry

Guys, come and check out my page at http://www.oz.net/~wottenad/wheel.htm for a complete tutorial on building your own wheel and pedal setup out of spare parts... Also, check out the motion base I made for my chair at http://www.oz.net/~wottenad/chair.htm ... Wally

[snip - lets hope I still get the attribs right] I'm sorry, I can't see how that can be possible. If the brake and gas use the same axis, then there can only be one value generated for any given combination of pedal positions. There's no way I can see that you could apply full brake and full gas at the same time. My guess is that you are seeing either one pedal over-riding the other one, or a difference due to changes in your driving style when you use pedal combinations. Regards, James.

James is correct. If you look at the values that change with a joystick diagnostic program..... A T2 is a single pot that you can alter. If you press the "gas" down 100 value points, and then press the brake down 50 value points, it is the same as just pushing the gas down 50. On the other hand, the CH flight pedals have a switch that will allow it to be a single axis device our a dual axis device.... With it, you can have any value of accelration mixed with any value of brake. The other difference is that the T2 can be used as Axis 2 on Joystick 1 for cards that only support one joystick, where the CH pedals are designed to be Joystick 2 I don't know how NASCAR or INDYCAR deal with this - if they do at all. Yes, Rick Genter, this is your cue :-) For those of us who have driven two-footed style in a real racing situation, it may be that we just imagine the Nascar sim behaving differently because we 'expect' it to. The mind is a mysterious thing. Much like driving with a joystick makes it feel like a game, but using a wheel and pedals makes you get "lost in it". Even if it takes some getting used to and your times are reduced, you don't want to go back to the "game" feel. Mike Dr2

>I don't know how NASCAR or INDYCAR deal with this - if they do at all. Yes, >Rick >Genter, this is your cue :-) Oh, uh, ahem. :-) NASCAR and IndyCar II allow "half" of an axis to be acceleration, braking or reverse. (The halfway point is the value read when the joystick/pedals are released, not the average of the low and high values.) Rick Genter Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II Sierra On-Line, Inc.

I've used the brake and gas simultaneously in Need For Speed and it works....

> I'm sorry, I can't see how that can be possible. If the brake and gas use the > same axis, then there can only be one value generated for any given combination > of pedal positions. There's no way I can see that you could apply full brake and > full gas at the same time. I never apply full gas and full brake. It's just that the brake depressed half way has a more distinct and *** braking effect on the car. But when I depress the brake half way and keep up the gas, say at 3/4, it seems to brake more easily and transition more smoothly on the gas. Perhaps some of both. Actually, the RPMs don't change as the gas pedal is smashed (wish they did), just the speed. But there is a difference when they are both used together. Perhaps the input is varied very very quickly like: left right left right left right very fast, don't know enough about it to comment. That is just pure speculation. Rob Ryder -- There's nothing you can do that can't be done Nothing you can sing that can't be sung John Lennon (All You Need Is Love 1967)