IndyCar Racing II

Papyrus · released 1995 · discussed in 13,757 posts, 1994-2010 · overall tone positive

Posts per month

Timeline

• 1995-03-08 Papyrus announced IndyCar Racing II, built on the NASCAR Racing engine, for DOS, Windows and Macintosh by Christmas, together with a NASCAR track pack without Daytona or Indianapolis. post post thread
• 1995-05-11 Papyrus previewed IndyCar Racing II at E3 with SVGA graphics and 15 tracks, and confirmed two-player modem/IPX support like NASCAR Racing. post thread post
• 1995-05-15 Papyrus and IBM ran networked multi-station Indy 500 sim cockpits at the Indianapolis 500 Fanfest. post post
• 1995-07-22 Papyrus confirmed IndyCar Racing II would ship simultaneously for DOS, Windows 3.1, Windows 95 and Macintosh. post thread
• 1995-09-07 Rick Genter of Papyrus explained that the physics model stayed essentially two-dimensional, and that IndyCar Racing II would have no curbs. post post thread
• 1995-11-10 Papyrus released the IndyCar Racing II demo, with Michigan and Laguna Seca, on its BBS, and it followed on FTP. thread post post
• 1995-11-15 Papyrus said the Windows 95 and Macintosh versions of IndyCar Racing II would slip into 1996. DOS buyers would be able to get the Win95 version for a nominal fee. post thread post
• 1995-11-17 IndyCar Racing II for DOS began shipping in North America. It had 15 tracks and no Indianapolis. thread post post
• 1995-12-07 Papyrus released a patch for the IndyCar Racing II paint kit's 'skunk stripe' bug. post post
• 1995-12-15 IndyCar Racing II reached UK shops, and it was released in France and Germany the following week. post post post
• 1995-12-22 The first complete fan-made 1995 IndyCar car sets for IndyCar Racing II appeared. post post post
• 1995-12-30 Rick Genter said Jacques Villeneuve had refused to license his name and likeness for IndyCar Racing II. post
• 1996-02-23 Papyrus said IndyCar Racing II for Windows 95 was scheduled for June and that no Windows 95 version of NASCAR Racing was planned. thread post
• 1996-06-14 The Windows 95 and Macintosh versions of IndyCar Racing II went gold. thread post
• 1996-06-17 Rick Genter announced he was leaving Papyrus on June 28 to found a new game company with Todd Farrington. thread post post
• 1996-06-27 The combined DOS/Windows 95/Mac CD of IndyCar Racing II appeared in US stores. thread post
• 1996-07-01 Papyrus announced that DOS owners of IndyCar Racing II could exchange their disc for the new DOS/Win95/Mac CD for a handling fee. thread post
• 1996-07-12 The IndyCar Racing II 1.00 to 1.02 DOS patch appeared on Papyrus's Hawaii server. Sierra posted it officially a few days later. thread post post
• 1996-08-07 Max Papis replaced the late Jeff Krosnoff at Arciero-Wells and said most of his Indy car experience came from IndyCar Racing II. post post
• 1996-09-01 Papyrus released the downloadable Windows 95 upgrade patch for IndyCar Racing II. post post post
• 1996-10-04 Papyrus announced Rendition Verite support for IndyCar Racing II and NASCAR Racing 2. thread post
• 1996-10-14 Intergraph began selling its Rendition-based Reactor 3D card bundled with a Rendition version of IndyCar Racing II. thread post
• 1997-01-24 CART signed a multi-year exclusive video game licence with Sony, ending Papyrus's access to the series. post post
• 1997-03-07 Papyrus confirmed that it had no plans for further IndyCar Racing II updates or an IndyCar Racing 3. thread post
• 1997-05-16 David Noonan released his IndyCar Racing II to NASCAR Racing 2 track converter. His plan to charge for the full version split the group. post thread
• 1997-09-15 Papyrus announced CART Racing, a re-release of IndyCar Racing II with a driver's guide and the Rendition version. thread post post
• 1997-09-26 Second-generation Rendition cards, starting with the Diamond Stealth II (V2100), reached stores, but early boards would not run IndyCar Racing II's Rendition mode. post post
• 1997-10-30 CART Racing, the repackaged IndyCar Racing II, went on sale for $29.95. post post
• 2000-03-22 Dave Noonan's commercial converter went on sale. It brought IndyCar Racing II and NASCAR tracks into Grand Prix Legends. thread post post

Key threads

• Dave Noonan's ICR2/N2 to GPL track converter goes on sale 2000-03-22 · 96 posts
  Dave Noonan's commercial converter for bringing ICR2 and NASCAR tracks such as Riverside, Laguna Seca and Indianapolis into GPL went on sale for 15 pounds via sim-garage.co.uk, with AI for oval tracks. Most posters welcomed it and defended the price, and ordering glitches and VAT were discussed. The thread drifted into capital punishment politics and later congratulated Greger Huttu on a 7:49.50 Nurburgring lap.
• Papyrus on 2D physics, curbs and features in IndyCar Racing II 1995-09-06 · 51 posts
  Asked why cars could not flip, Rick Genter of Papyrus explained that the physics model was essentially two-dimensional and would remain so in IndyCar Racing II and NASCAR for Windows/Mac, and confirmed ICR II would have no curbs. He also described wide-angle mirrors, a much simpler Windows garage interface, a Q1 1996 date for NASCAR for Mac/Windows, and why a 320x400 mode would be costly. Players expressed disappointment about the lack of curbs and LAN multiplayer and compared it with the forthcoming F1GP II.
• IndyCar Racing II release dates, demo and Windows 95 delay 1995-10-31 · 25 posts
  Following Papyrus's release-date announcement, Rick Genter answered questions about IndyCar Racing II: localized European versions would ship from the UK on November 22, the initial DOS release had no 3D card or Direct3D support, and the demo went up on the Papyrus BBS. He said the Windows 95 version would slip into 1996 to avoid a buggy release, and Ann Marie Gianantoni of Papyrus confirmed manuals in Spanish, German, Italian and French. Some buyers were confused about whether a Win95 upgrade coupon was included.
• Rick Genter announces departure from Papyrus 1996-06-17 · 24 posts
  Rick Genter, technical lead on IndyCar Racing II, announced that his last day at Papyrus would be June 28 and that he and ICR2 producer Todd Farrington were forming a new game company whose first project would not be a driving game. Dozens of regulars thanked him for his unusually open and professional support on the newsgroup, and some wondered whether the Sierra takeover played a role. He said he would mostly lurk in game programming groups.
• ICR2 patch delay sparks long argument and Papyrus replies 1996-06-22 · 116 posts
  A long and abusive thread argued over the eight-month wait for the IndyCar Racing II patch, with complaints about the yellow-flag bug and accusations that resources had been diverted to NASCAR 2 and the Win95 version. Rick Genter stated the patch was in Sierra QA and expected around that Thursday. Later posts discussed the planned CD exchange for the Win95/DOS/Mac version and urged Ed Martin not to be driven away by the hostility.
• Debate over selling an ICR2-to-NASCAR 2 track converter 1997-05-13 · 100 posts
  David Noonan's plan to charge for his IndyCar Racing II to NASCAR 2 track converter split the group. Some called for a boycott and claimed it infringed Papyrus's or track owners' rights, while others argued he was selling only his own code and deserved payment; Noonan said he had received abusive e-mails. Jim Sokoloff pointed out that software licences typically forbid reverse engineering, and the long thread degenerated into arguments about what makes someone an artist.
• What the Rendition Verite 3D chip means for racing sims 1996-09-27 · 57 posts
  Users asked about the Rendition 3D chip on cards from Creative Labs, Intergraph and Sierra, and Eric Busch explained Verite versus 3Dfx Voodoo and Direct3D support. David Sparks reported that Papyrus had announced Verite support for IndyCar Racing II and NASCAR Racing 2. The thread was sidetracked by heated arguments over VHS versus Beta and OS/2 versus Windows 95.
• NASCAR 2 feature details spark sequel-versus-patch debate 1996-05-29 · 57 posts
  David Sparks summarised NASCAR 2 details from Papyrus's Adam Levesque, including a spotter and crew chief, real-time AI qualifying over two days, and an engine based on ICR2. Terje Wold Johansen argued that it was an upgrade sold as a sequel, with the same 2.5D engine and physics, and predicted GP2 would surpass it, which drew hostile replies. Charlie Heath of Papyrus asked for replays of the rare 'teleport' bug, and players shared stories of cars jumping through walls.
• Users demand more ICR2 patches; Papyrus explains IndyCar exit 1997-03-03 · 56 posts
  A user demanded that Papyrus finish IndyCar Racing II with further patches and features. Posters pointed out that CART had signed an exclusive license with Sony, and Papyrus's Jim Sokoloff explained that the IndyCar license had never been very profitable and that Papyrus judged other projects more profitable and interesting, with no plans for ICR2 updates; Charlie Heath denied that Sierra had blocked patches. The thread became a broader debate about Papyrus's priorities after the Sierra acquisition and the effect of the CART/IRL split.
• Rumour Papyrus shelved CART sim, denied by Mike Lescault 1998-04-23 · 49 posts
  Sim Racing News reported a rumour from 'reliable sources' that Papyrus had dropped plans for a CART sequel to IndyCar Racing II, and fans protested, asked for a petition and debated licences. Papyrus's Mike Lescault then posted that Papyrus planned to release a CART sequel in 1999 based on GPL's physics engine, which brought relief. Marc Nelson noted that 'planning' did not guarantee the game, and Jim Sokolov pointed out the CART licence was probably not exclusive.
• Ed Martin clarifies ICR2 patch and Win95 upgrade plans 1996-06-30 · 44 posts
  Ed Martin, while noting he was not on the ICR2 team, said the DOS-to-DOS patch was still in testing and that a Win95 patch was too big to download, so owners would be offered the new DOS/Win95/Mac CD for roughly handling cost by returning the old CD. Most readers thanked him, though some objected to giving up their original CD and others reported Win95 frame-rate stutters.
• 486/120 or Pentium upgrade for Papyrus sims, and GP2 speed fears 1996-01-06 · 42 posts
  A user asked whether an AMD 486/120 or a Pentium 75/100 would better run ICR II and NASCAR; most recommended a Pentium for its PCI bus and upgrade path. Rick Genter of Papyrus confirmed ICR II's graphics engine was Pentium-optimised and said a GP2 demo he saw ran at 140-150% processor occupancy in VGA on a P90. This prompted extrapolated fears about GP2 performance, which others criticised as based on an old show demo and possibly biased; Genter said his observation was personal.
• Track editor demand for IndyCar 2 sparks flame war 1995-05-02 · 41 posts
  Bryon La demanded local yellows and a track editor in the next IndyCar Racing, citing Stunts, and suggested a boycott if they were missing. Ralf Southard and others argued that Papyrus tracks, with embedded AI and detailed scenery, were far too complex for a Stunts-style editor, while some supporters said a sophisticated editor would add value. The exchange degenerated into name-calling, mock polls and personal insults, with a few posters lamenting the thread's decline.
• Papyrus admits NASCAR 2 limits; ICR2 Win95 goes gold 1996-05-30 · 40 posts
  Adam Levesque of Papyrus confirmed that NASCAR 2 would keep the curved pit roads because there was no time to rewrite the track tools. This led to angry complaints about rushed annual releases and the overdue ICR2 patch, with defenders insulting critics. Levesque defended the team and called the online service revolutionary. Charlie Heath said Papyrus had prototyped force feedback with Exos a year earlier. Rick Genter announced that the ICR2 Windows 95 and Macintosh versions had gone gold and that a DOS 1.0.1 patch would go online.
• Papyrus confirms Win95 ICR2 for June, no NASCAR upgrade 1996-02-22 · 39 posts
  Asked about Windows 95 versions, Papyrus technical lead Rick Genter said IndyCar Racing II for Windows 95 was scheduled for June, and that there were no plans for a Windows 95 version or other upgrades of NASCAR Racing. He said the decision was Papyrus's own, and that not upgrading NASCAR Racing was different from never making another NASCAR product. Readers took this as a hint of NASCAR 2 and posted long wish lists covering AI, spotters, pit speeds, network play and post-race analysis.
• Indianapolis track rights and copying it for ICR2 1997-05-30 · 37 posts
  A user argued that Papyrus should stop pursuing people who share the out-of-print Indianapolis track pack for IndyCar Racing II. Others explained that Papyrus is obliged to protect IMS's rights in order to keep other track licences, and Papyrus's Adam Levesque said IMS owns the track's likeness through trade dress. The thread moved to Daytona, with Jim Sokoloff explaining why ISC would sell Sega an exclusive licence if it paid more than non-exclusive deals.
• Papyrus previews IndyCar Racing 2.0 at E3 1995 1995-05-10 · 36 posts
  Papyrus posted a press release previewing IndyCar Racing 2.0 at the 1995 E3. Rick Genter of Papyrus confirmed it would have the same two-player modem/IPX support as NASCAR Racing, and attendees described networked beta stations at the Indy 500 Fanfest. The thread was dominated by Bryon La's complaints about hardware requirements and no track editor, which led to a heated, insulting exchange with Ralf Southard and others over whether ICR was a sim or a game.
• Papyrus and Sierra announce new CART sim for 1999 1998-01-08 · 32 posts
  Online Gaming Review reported that Sierra and Papyrus would produce a new CART sim for spring 1999, with Sierra holding the CART licence until July 2003. Fans welcomed the return of Papyrus to CART, though Randy Magruder warned against over-romanticising Papyrus. The thread became a comparison of Papyrus, MS/TRI and Ubisoft, and whether ICR2 had been neglected.
• ICR2 bugs, DOS patch timing and Win95 version details 1996-04-09 · 29 posts
  A question about a car disappearing at Laguna Seca led to complaints about unfixed IndyCar Racing II bugs, such as the yellow-flag and over-rev light problems. Rick Genter of Papyrus said the DOS patch would come out at the same time as the June Windows 95 version, which DOS owners could download free. He said the Windows version uses DirectDraw, DirectSound and DirectInput but not Direct3D, and that some early 3D cards were slower than software rendering on a P90. He also said Sierra had taken over tech support on March 11.
• Papyrus's Scott Maris quits newsgroup after ICR2 patch abuse 1996-06-30 · 29 posts
  A user asked Ed Martin why no Win95 patch would be offered; Martin explained the CD exchange plan. Papyrus's Scott Maris added that a downloadable Win95 patch was abandoned as not worth the effort given DirectX and installer issues, which drew obscene replies and threats of piracy. Maris announced he was done with the group, and regulars lamented that abusive posters had driven off another developer.
• IndyCar 2 announcement and NASCAR 1.2 patch bug complaints 1995-03-09 · 28 posts
  Paul Hodgetts relayed news that Papyrus was working on IndyCar Racing 2 using the NASCAR engine, while league organiser Tony Johns voiced frustration over the long-delayed NASCAR patch and listed bugs such as yellow-flag cars driving through walls and phantom stay-behind black flags. Others defended Papyrus as a small company under business pressure. Rich from Papyrus clarified that the 1.2 patch did not add multiplayer for more than two players, and a later post reported that the NASCAR 1.2 update had been released.
• IndyCar Racing II Rendition version impressions and fixes 1996-10-24 · 28 posts
  Users discussed the Rendition-accelerated IndyCar Racing II bundled with the Intergraph Reactor and Sierra boards. Rendition's Mike Boich said all tracks gained anti-aliasing, filtering and 30 fps, while five tracks also got high-color artwork. Intergraph's David Anderson said a race-length bug caused by Papyrus's code had been fixed, along with Cyrix compatibility problems.
• NASCAR Racing Track Pack release and Talladega accuracy 1995-05-08 · 26 posts
  Posters announced that the NASCAR Racing track expansion would ship on May 16, 1995 with Charlotte, Sears Point, Dover, Richmond, Rockingham and North Wilkesboro, while Daytona and Indianapolis were excluded for licensing reasons. Rick Genter, IndyCar Racing 2.0 technical lead at Papyrus, said ICR 2.0 would use the NASCAR engine and be Papyrus's first cross-platform game. Buyers reported the pack included the 1.2 patch, that Sears Point was hard, that the UK release would slip to late summer, and criticised the Talladega tri-oval and curved pit roads.
• ICR2 1.00 to 1.02 patch appears on Hawaii 1996-07-13 · 25 posts
  A user reported that the long-awaited IndyCar Racing II 1.00 to 1.02 DOS patch had been posted on Papyrus's Hawaii server, and others complained it was not on a website. Readers mirrored it via FTP and web pages until Sierra put it up officially a few days later. Early users found the patch made driver files read-only, fixable with attrib, and reported some install errors.
• ICR2 Windows 95/Mac edition appears in stores 1996-06-27 · 25 posts
  Users reported the combined DOS/Win95/Mac IndyCar Racing II CD in stores, and Rick Genter confirmed it contained all three versions. Ed Martin said the retail version included the updated DOS code and the downloadable patch was being built from it. Early buyers complained about stuttering and low frame rates in the Win95 version, while Papyrus's Scott Maris listed its interface and paint shop improvements.
• IndyCar Racing II demo released 1995-11-15 · 20 posts
  Players reported that the IndyCar Racing II demo, about 7 MB with Michigan and Laguna Seca, was available on the Papyrus BBS and later FTP. Most praised its improved AI, sound and surprisingly fast SVGA mode, enabled with 'indycar -h' as Rick Genter confirmed. One poster called it a waste because setups could not be changed, drawing angry replies. Genter also said ICR II tracks could not be hacked into NASCAR Racing.
• Debate over GP2 cockpit view and visible front wheels 1995-11-08 · 51 posts
  Discussion of the Grand Prix 2 cockpit view, which hid the front wheels and showed an animated steering wheel, split into F1GP and IndyCar camps. Some argued unseen wheels give better perspective, while others said they make judging curbs hard; a PC Zone interview was cited in which Geoff Crammond praised Papyrus's IndyCar Racing. Jim Sokoloff and Rick Genter of Papyrus explained that keys such as 'A' could not be remapped in NASCAR and ICR II because they were hard-coded, and the thread drifted into F1-versus-IndyCar racing arguments and memories of EA's Ferrari F1.
• Frustration over delayed ICR2 DOS patch 1996-06-21 · 47 posts
  A user who could not find the long-promised IndyCar Racing II patch started a thread that became a heated argument about whether customers were entitled to timely bug fixes. Critics said the yellow-flag and AI bugs had gone unfixed for eight months, while defenders said the patch was free and Papyrus was unusually communicative. Kyle Stevens later apologised for his part in the name-calling.
• IndyCar versus F1 handling, and which car is faster 1996-10-20 · 41 posts
  A player asked why cars corner faster in GP2 than in ICR2 on road courses. The answer that F1 cars are lighter with more downforce turned into a long argument over whether an F1 car or an IndyCar would be faster on an oval such as Michigan. Some posts were insulting, but most agreed that IndyCars are faster on ovals and F1 cars are faster on road courses.
• PC Gamer's GP2 review sparks debate over F1GP physics and gravity 1996-01-25 · 41 posts
  Fraser Mun summarised PC Gamer's early review of Grand Prix 2, including claims about graphics and frame rates on a P90. Readers were sceptical of a first magazine review, and a question about whether F1GP modelled gravity turned into a long physics argument over mass, inertia, weight and friction. Fans of the Papyrus sims and of Crammond's games traded jibes about missing features such as clutch, stalling and cars rolling on hills.
• Remembering Papyrus's IndyCar Racing II 2004-05-18 · 39 posts
  Darf reinstalled IndyCar Racing II on an old laptop and asked who remembered it. Many recalled it fondly for its feel, modem and serial multiplayer and tracks like Vancouver and Laguna Seca, while critics cited its lack of wheelspin and lock-up, understeer, and preferred GP2. Several lamented that no comparable CART sim had followed.
• Availability and bundles of Rendition-based 3D cards 1996-10-05 · 37 posts
  Users asked when Creative's 3D Blaster PCI would ship and compared the three Rendition cards from Creative, Intergraph and Sierra. Intergraph's Reactor shipped first, from October 14, bundled with a Rendition-ready IndyCar Racing II, and Sierra's Screamin' 3D also included ICR2. Creative Labs' Mike Carrothers said his company's card would arrive at the end of October.
• ICR2 handling versus GP2 expectations, then F1 vs IndyCar 1996-06-28 · 37 posts
  A poster who claimed real single-seater experience called ICR2's handling laughable and hoped GP2 would model power oversteer better, prompting replies that he simply could not drive it. A beta tester described GP2's throttle help and the need to feather the throttle. The thread drifted into a long off-topic argument comparing F1 and IndyCar drivers such as Hill, Mansell and Villeneuve.
• NASCAR Racing 2 Rendition version underwhelms compared with ICR2 1996-12-04 · 35 posts
  Owners compared NASCAR Racing 2's Rendition mode with Rendition ICR2 and found it lacking anti-aliasing, transparent smoke and scenery in the mirrors, with choppy frame rates on some tracks. Rendition's Mike Boich said an anti-aliased version was expected and recommended the DMA batch file. Users also advised against automatic detail settings.
• Complaints about Grand Prix 2 hardware demands and realism 1996-08-05 · 34 posts
  A poster complained that GP2 could not run at full detail on a P166 and that its damage was unrealistic compared with ICR2. Replies defended GP2, explained that disabling steering help, opposite-lock help and auto spin recovery changes the feel, and noted that keyboard users cannot turn off steering help. Side topics included a kerb-sound stereo bug, frame rates at race starts, and the FIA endorsement.
• Why IndyCar Racing II feels harder to drive than Grand Prix 2 1997-02-12 · 33 posts
  Players compared ICR2's twitchy handling with GP2's more forgiving feel. Several, including a real SCCA racer, argued that ICR2 better reflects driving at the limit and that GP2 includes arcade-like aids. Others wanted a more playable mode, and Michael Carver noted that NASCAR 2 added an arcade mode, while trail braking and the ICR2 patch were also discussed.
• Are the Intergraph Reactor ICR2 ads misleading 1996-11-02 · 32 posts
  A poster called magazine ads comparing standard and Rendition IndyCar Racing II screenshots false advertising. Others explained that both images were set for about 30 fps, which forced the non-accelerated version to drop detail, and owners described big visual gains. Intergraph's David Anderson answered driver and resolution questions, and the original poster ended up ordering a card.
• CART Precision Racing frame rates and driving model debated 1997-11-02 · 32 posts
  A fan of the CPR demo complained of 12–15 fps with a 3Dfx card in cockpit view. Randy Magruder and John Wallace debated wheelspin, grip and how realistic CPR's tyre model was compared with ICR2. The CART team said the game had no AI-avoidance steering, though contact with the front wheels could affect steering, and they would look for a possible drafting bug; Jim Sokoloff noted that Papyrus models tyre grip as an ellipse, not a circle.
• Comparing Grand Prix 2 and IndyCar Racing II physics and sound 1996-11-05 · 31 posts
  Alan Pengelly compared the physics models of GP2 and ICR2 in detail, finding GP2 easier to drive below the limit. The discussion then centred on GP2's lack of audible opponent engines. David Gary called this unrealistic, while others cited Damon Hill saying he rarely hears other cars, and John Wallace argued that F1 drivers rely on mirrors instead.
• Papyrus CART sim news sparks Papyrus versus Microsoft debate 1998-01-09 · 30 posts
  Alison asked whether reports of a new Papyrus CART sim for 1999 were true, and Ken confirmed an official announcement. A critic said Papyrus kept rehashing engines without curbs or rain, while Dave Henrie noted the new sims would use the Grand Prix Legends engine. Randy Magruder argued Papyrus had made only incremental advances since ICR1 and that CPR was more ambitious, which others disputed.

Busiest threads

• ICR2 patch delay sparks long argument and Papyrus replies (62 posts about it)
• Frustration over delayed ICR2 DOS patch (32 posts about it)
• Users demand more ICR2 patches; Papyrus explains IndyCar exit (28 posts about it)
• Eric Busch's hands-on report of Grand Prix Legends (25 posts about it)
• Why IndyCar Racing II feels harder to drive than Grand Prix 2 (22 posts about it)
• Papyrus on 2D physics, curbs and features in IndyCar Racing II (20 posts about it)
• ICR2 bugs, DOS patch timing and Win95 version details (20 posts about it)
• Ed Martin clarifies ICR2 patch and Win95 upgrade plans (20 posts about it)
• IndyCar Racing II release dates, demo and Windows 95 delay (17 posts about it)
• 486/120 or Pentium upgrade for Papyrus sims, and GP2 speed fears (17 posts about it)
• Papyrus admits NASCAR 2 limits; ICR2 Win95 goes gold (17 posts about it)
• What Papyrus will do after NASCAR Racing 2002 (16 posts about it)
• IndyCar Racing II demo SVGA performance on 486 and Pentium (16 posts about it)
• Remembering Papyrus's IndyCar Racing II (15 posts about it)
• ICR2 Windows 95/Mac edition appears in stores (15 posts about it)

Sentiment by year

Each post that discussed the sim was rated from −2 (very negative) to +2 (very positive).

Who talked about it most

Michael E. Carver · 684 Dave Henrie · 424 RickGent · 253 ymenard · 241 John Wallace · 180 Jeff Vincent · 147 Eric Busch · 132 Byron Forbes · 123 Jo · 103 TRUSRS85 · 84 Greg Cisko · 83 Marc J. Nelson · 82 SimRaci · 80 Doug Reichl · 77 David Spark · 76 Terje Wold Johans · 62 Neil Yeatma · 61 Earl · 59 EldredP · 58 Ronald Stoehr · 58

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