Indycar 2 vs GP2

Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other day, shite. I hope sooo much that MPS will incorporate power oversteer and correct tracition calculation as ICR2 was hopeless at simulating this. Any1 got any ideas of the GP2 car handling??? Hey lets pass the time quicker by preparing ourselves for the new car :?) Alan

>Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here >finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other >day, shite. God, No! It must have been a difficult condescent. (american Translation: he couldn't keep it on the track.) Ya, I'm sure GP2 will have many more ways that ICR2 to make racecar driving seem easy for those not really interested in a sim. The question is, with all of it's bells and whistles, can GP2 still match ICR2 in being a real sim? I'm hoping so.

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>>Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here >>finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other >>day, shite. >God, No! It must have been a difficult condescent. >>I hope sooo much that MPS will incorporate power oversteer >>and correct tracition calculation as ICR2 was hopeless at simulating >>this. >(american Translation: he couldn't keep it on the track.) >Ya, I'm sure GP2 will have many more ways that ICR2 to make racecar >driving seem easy for those not really interested in a sim. >The question is, with all of it's bells and whistles, can GP2 still >match ICR2 in being a real sim? I'm hoping so. >> Any1 got any ideas of the GP2 car handling??? Hey lets pass the >>time quicker by preparing ourselves for the new car :?) >>Alan

Oi, the American translation***is not amusing: IF you feel that ICR2 is somin as a landmark for Sims then you are obviously a poor driver yourself. I have driven single seaters and high powered sports cars in competition and find ICR2 laaaarfable. So enough o the smarmy Yank shit coz at the end of the day i have never seen a 800bhp car keep traction on a bend under full throttle at mid speed so what the hell on about? It wasn't that i couyldn't control the thing it was just understeer/crap. Yes i am using a T2 and i have managed 8th quickest at imloa in MPS Gp racing series on internet so i know what im doin. Up yours, And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is cool, more French than Canadian) ALan. (Reply to ma thread and i will be happy to wop your Ass over Indycar/F1gp with Kali ok sunshine?

[snip!] :Oi, the American translation***is not amusing: IF you feel that ICR2 :is somin as a landmark for Sims then you are obviously a poor driver :yourself. I have driven single seaters and high powered sports cars in Judging by the quality and richness of language you have used in your arguments, I didn't know nurseries allowed the kids near such big toys. :competition and find ICR2 laaaarfable. So enough o the smarmy Yank :shit coz at the end of the day i have never seen a 800bhp car keep :traction on a bend under full throttle at mid speed so what the hell :on about? It wasn't that i couyldn't control the thing it was just :understeer/crap. Yes i am using a T2 and i have managed 8th quickest Have you ever thought of practising? :at imloa in MPS Gp racing series on internet so i know what im doin. :Up yours, SA or NSA? If it's SA, what are you doing complaining about, with F1GP's tramlines keeping the car on the racing line. If it's NSA, then that's barely realistic either, and to complain about ICR2 being uncontrolable when NSA steering is an order of magnitude harder than ICR2 is a bit rich. And yes, I have raced F1GP for a season and a half NSA, and was in the top 6 NSA hotlaps at most tracks on the Compuserve league last season. : :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is :cool, more French than Canadian) : :ALan. (Reply to ma thread and i will be happy to wop your Ass over ^^^^ Are you really he? From your headers: > NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-03-59.netcomuk.co.uk Hmmm... I am always wary of posters with fake headers. :Indycar/F1gp with Kali ok sunshine? Do you know something no-one else does? Neither work, although I heard ICR2 for Win95 has/will have IPX support. Ken

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> Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here > finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other > day, shite. I hope sooo much that MPS will incorporate power oversteer > and correct tracition calculation as ICR2 was hopeless at simulating > this. Any1 got any ideas of the GP2 car handling??? Hey lets pass the > time quicker by preparing ourselves for the new car :?) > Alan

did someone tell ya you just can't drive??? instead of finding a new wagon.. just learn to drive the darn thing!

From a beta version I can say that there is another helper (F7) that is called throttle help. It more or less saves you from wicked oversteer. When I first played GP2, I could not believe the amount of power the car actually has. You actually have to feather the throttle out of 1st and 2nd gear corners or around you go !!! This is a fantastic sim and I totally recommend a wheel/pedel combo. The engine sounds are unbelievable especially when you downshift and the frame rate on my 686-100 is >25fps in VGA. Add cars and it slows it down (140% occupancy) but still playable.

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>>>Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here >>>finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other >>>day, shite. >>God, No! It must have been a difficult condescent. >>>I hope sooo much that MPS will incorporate power oversteer >>>and correct tracition calculation as ICR2 was hopeless at simulating >>>this. >>(american Translation: he couldn't keep it on the track.) >>Ya, I'm sure GP2 will have many more ways that ICR2 to make racecar >>driving seem easy for those not really interested in a sim. >>The question is, with all of it's bells and whistles, can GP2 still >>match ICR2 in being a real sim? I'm hoping so. >>> Any1 got any ideas of the GP2 car handling??? Hey lets pass the >>>time quicker by preparing ourselves for the new car :?) >>>Alan >Oi, the American translation***is not amusing: IF you feel that ICR2 >is somin as a landmark for Sims then you are obviously a poor driver >yourself. I have driven single seaters and high powered sports cars in >competition and find ICR2 laaaarfable. So enough o the smarmy Yank >shit coz at the end of the day i have never seen a 800bhp car keep >traction on a bend under full throttle at mid speed so what the hell >on about? It wasn't that i couyldn't control the thing it was just >understeer/crap. Yes i am using a T2 and i have managed 8th quickest >at imloa in MPS Gp racing series on internet so i know what im doin. >Up yours, >And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar >drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is >cool, more French than Canadian) >ALan. (Reply to ma thread and i will be happy to wop your Ass over >Indycar/F1gp with Kali ok sunshine?

Bit sensitive are we, I think the point being made was the ICR2 (bugs and all) is the best SIM available on the market at the moment and if you are having trouble keeping it on the track because the handleing does not conform to your experience maybe you should modify your driving style to suit (nobody is saying it perfect) whilst using the product. If and when there is some competition available we can compare the comparitive "realistic" handleing of the driving models. BTW are you seriously saying all F1 drivers are better than all IndyCar drivers, if so I think you need to get a grip on reality. I suggest you take this argument to rec.autos.sport.f1 and/or rec.autos.sport.indy and don't waste our bandwidth ..... Anthony

Cyrix chip i take it? have you tried svga mode, if so how bad is it with all the objects and rear textures turned off. Jeff

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> > > [snip!] > > > : > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is > :cool, more French than Canadian) > :

Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? Now that is what I call laughable. Roy

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> > [snip!] > > > : > > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar > > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is > > :cool, more French than Canadian) > > : > Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? > Now that is what I call laughable. > Roy

I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals.

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> > [snip!] > > > : > > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar > > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is > > :cool, more French than Canadian) > > : > Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? > Now that is what I call laughable. > RoyI would imagine he would do about as well as the last english driver to

make the jump over to CART. Nigel Mansell, remember him, I believe he was 5 out of 6 on ovals that first year. Real laughable, if you're english.

>I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great >English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, >first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals. Actually I believe your wrong, on the biggest oval of em all Indy500 he choked on a restart and Emmo won...(sorry off topic I know..... but could'nt resist :-) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MP Scurvydog #00 Simpson-Cowlings Motorsports http://www.netcom.com/~svydog/scms/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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> > > > > > > > > > > [snip!] > > > > > > > : > > > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most

indycar > > > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is > > > :cool, more French than Canadian) > > > : > > Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? > > Now that is what I call laughable. > > Roy > > I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great > English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, > first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals. Are you really going to compare Damon Hill with Nigel Mansell? I never liked the man, personally, but at least he knew how to overtake. You'll see how "good" Damon is next year when he loses the ride at Williams and has to drive a car that is more commensurate with his driving abilities. Roy

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>> > [snip!] >> > > : >> > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar >> > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is >> > :cool, more French than Canadian) >> > : >> Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? >> Now that is what I call laughable. >> RoyI would imagine he would do about as well as the last english driver to >make the jump over to CART. Nigel Mansell, remember him, I believe he >was 5 out of 6 on ovals that first year. Real laughable, if you're >english.

I don't quite follow your point, are you saying because Mansell won the chapionship and some oval races in his 1st year in IndyCar (In what was undisputably the fastest, best prepared car) F1 drivers are better than IndyCar drivers ? Gee Alesi must be pissed, what is it 100 odd races for 1 win, JV 4 races 1 win (should have been 2) but of course thats go nothing to do with the fact that he is in the best car has it ? Would you agree that if Shumi was in a Williams he would have won every race by at LEAST half a lap barring mechanical failure ? What does this tell you ........ Anthony

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> = > > Doh, i just wanna say thank *** gp2 looks like its gonne be here > > finally. I have been so desperate i resorted to indycar 2 the other > > day, shite. I hope sooo much that MPS will incorporate power oversteer > > and correct tracition calculation as ICR2 was hopeless at simulating > > this. Any1 got any ideas of the GP2 car handling??? Hey lets pass the > > time quicker by preparing ourselves for the new car :=AC) > = > > Alan > = > did someone tell ya you just can't drive??? instead of finding a new > wagon.. just learn to drive the darn thing!

I think what El Fredsomethingorother was saying was that he has raced single seaters and he found ICRII lacking in realism. = I used to be good at Test Drive on the Amiga but if I drove the same way in real life I would die. Just because you can find a simulator driving style which looks the same way that it does on TV it doesn't mean it is the same thing. I haven't tried ICRII but ICRI had the most appalling low speed tyre grip model I've ever seen. I don't care how bad my set up was, I am never going to understeer off a track on a wide bend at 50mph in real life. And no, the tyres weren't cold. Chris.

: I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great : English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, : first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals. But look what driving Indycars did to him. He couldn't even fit into an F1 car afterwards, let alone drive one. For the humor-impaired -- It's a Joke, son, it's a joke! -- **************************** Michael E. Carver ************************* Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./. [- < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

And how did he win Phoenix from his hospital bed? I also don't remember his picture on the Borg-Warner trophy. -- | Dave Vollman Cogito, ergo stipendium | Lucent Technologies, Naperville, IL | Lucent would never let ME speak for THEM!

Actually if Schumi was driving a Williams and only won by half a lap I would think he MUST have had a mechanical failure. Schumi in a Wiliams...?!? Brrrrr! That would be scary. _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ _________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |_________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____:/ Sim Racing News \.____|::|__| \ /_______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm\::/ \._______\

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>> > [snip!] >> > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar >> > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is >> > :cool, more French than Canadian) >> > : >> Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? >> Now that is what I call laughable. >I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great >English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, >first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals.

Yeah, but Nige never had difficulties in handling traffic. Damon Hill does, and on a short oval, he'd be surrounded in traffic. -- +------------------+--------------------------------------------+ | G. Warren Abao | Official BBL Jacksonville Jaguars Website: | +------------------++------------------------+------------------+ | SPOOOOOOOOOOON!!! | BBL Jacksonville 9-7 | IFL Chicago 9-6 | +-------------------+------------------------+------------------+

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> >> > [snip!] > >> > :And by the way if you are American, take another look, most indycar > >> > :drivers would be pissin in the wind competing in F1 (bar JV who is > >> > :cool, more French than Canadian) > >> > : > >> Oh, yeah, sure. Can you imagine Damon Hill in the traffic at Nazareth? > >> Now that is what I call laughable. > >I would imagine he would have about as much trouble as the last great > >English driver that came over to CART. Remember him, Nigel Mansell, > >first year I believe he was UNDEFEATED on ovals. > Yeah, but Nige never had difficulties in handling traffic. Damon Hill does, > and on a short oval, he'd be surrounded in traffic. > -- > +------------------+--------------------------------------------+ > | G. Warren Abao | Official BBL Jacksonville Jaguars Website: | > +------------------++------------------------+------------------+ > | SPOOOOOOOOOOON!!! | BBL Jacksonville 9-7 | IFL Chicago 9-6 | > +-------------------+------------------------+------------------+Since every one here is crazy think about this.

Imagine Aryton driving a big fat Indycar? he would never have done it. The best Drivers drive the most DRIVABLE car ie F1. Indycars are ok but they are not the same as F1 and should not be compared.

>Imagine Aryton driving a big fat Indycar? he would never have done it. >The best Drivers drive the most DRIVABLE car ie F1. Indycars are ok but >they are not the same as F1 and should not be compared. Yeah, right.... I'll take Villeneuve in a '96 Reynard Honda with Firestone tires over any other F1 driver in a '96 F1 car. Let's see, how about running a race on a 'neutral' track that neither series currently runs on, such as Indiannapolis Motor Speedway. Yeah, those F1 cars will show just how fast they really are. Besides, it looks like there are only 2-3 'best' drivers in F1 and everyone else might as well not show up for 90% of the races. Clark Tired of the snobbish attitude of some F1 fans (and I actually LIKE Formula 1)

> Besides, it looks like there are only 2-3 'best' drivers in F1 and everyone > else might as well not show up for 90% of the races. > Clark Hi there, In F1, it may look like there is only 2-3 best drivers but it is not the case, not in my mind anyway... It is more like there is so much of a gap between the best teams and the good team, the good team and the average team. So the poor guys driving a Forti might be as good as Hill in his William but we'll never know because he cannot create miracle with a Forti, and will alwaus stay in shadow. Take the Jordan not far from McLaren, Ferrari and maybe William with their Peugeot engine but there is a major gap comparing chassi with the last three. See my point. In Indycar most cars are pretty much the same, now setup will play a big role on oval and drivers on road course but the cars stay the same (almost). Yves

>Imagine Aryton driving a big fat Indycar? he would never have done it. >The best Drivers drive the most DRIVABLE car ie F1. Indycars are ok but >they are not the same as F1 and should not be compared. Would have been interesting to see Senna at Indianapolis 500...... Craig

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>> >> Besides, it looks like there are only 2-3 'best' drivers in F1 and everyone >> else might as well not show up for 90% of the races. >> >> Clark > >Hi there, > >In F1, it may look like there is only 2-3 best drivers but it >is not the case, not in my mind anyway... It is more like >there is so much of a gap between the best teams and the good >team, the good team and the average team. So the poor guys >driving a Forti might be as good as Hill in his William but >we'll never know because he cannot create miracle with a >Forti, and will alwaus stay in shadow. Take the Jordan not >far from McLaren, Ferrari and maybe William with their >Peugeot engine but there is a major gap comparing chassi with >the last three. > >See my point.

Yes, that is also the same point I was trying to make. In IndyCar racing, the driver has much more input on how the whole package performs than in F1 where it is the engineering that makes the difference. For example, look at the difference in the points battle between Schumacher and Hill. It is not at all a good indication of relative driving ability. On the other hand, take a look at Al Unser, Jr vs. Jimmy Vasser. Even though Vasser as an arguably better car, it is not by such a huge margin that it is not overcomable by a superior driver. >In Indycar most cars are pretty much the same, now setup will >play a big role on oval and drivers on road course but the >cars stay the same (almost). > >Yves It is always interesting to me to watch F1 drivers when they come to IndyCar and vice versa. Take Zanardi for example. He never had the car in F1, but now that he has a decent car and team, he's actually gotten a win (almost two). All in all, I enjoy both racing series. But it seams that IndyCar is a drivers' championship and that F1 is a engineering championship. That's fine with me, but it doesn't lead to much non-pit passing for F1. Now, hopefully with GP2 we will not all be forced to drive a Benneton in order to be competitive. I want to rip around the track in a Ferrari. Note that in ICR2 that there is not one special car/engine/tire combo that puts you head and shoulders above the field. Clark Archer Speed Tribe IVGA #3920 1996 Lola Honda Firestone

Hey, *great* logic. Like Indiannapolis is neutral - you get a lot of 200+mph ovals in F1 <g> Why not use Donnington or Brands hatch or numerous other F1 circuits that aren't being used this year? Actually, can we just drop this thread please - it's off topic & doesn't belong here. Can't we all just accept that the best F1 drivers and the best Indy drivers are ***y brilliant, but not necessarily comparable (just as the best American Footballers are not the best Rugby players & vice versa). Follow ups to alt.flame.get.a.life Richard

F1 cars are nimble rather than built for all out brute force speed - the same parallels can be drawn between European and US road and performance cars. A race on IMS would be a totally unfair comparison. Perhaps comparing the 1000hp+ turbo F1 cars of years gone by on IMS? Then try putting an F1 car around Laguna Seca - I doubt an Indycar could keep up through the twists. They're different formulae for different things and thus impossible to compare. A Lancia Integrale would be both of them through a special stage - by a LONG way :) The only thing you can compare are drivers, and even then it's pure conjecture and blinkered favouritism (in my case at least!) :) Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

I think you maybe being a little over generous to Zanardi. The driver is enormously important in F1, as can be seen from the astronomical salaries teams were/are prepared to pay for exceptional talents such as Senna and Schumacher. Now, let's assume that those team managers know a little more than you and I about Zanardi's driving ability and racing background - do you think they would have paid to keep him in F1 if he was that good? Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

Hi there, > >It is always interesting to me to watch F1 drivers when they come to IndyCar > >and vice versa. Take Zanardi for example. He never had the car in F1, but > >now that he has a decent car and team, he's actually gotten a win (almost > >two). ....and led more races than anyone else Actually, at Monza where Johnny Herbert qualified the newer spec Honda in 4th place, Zanardi qualified higher with the older revision engine than Johnny had managed previously. If it hadn't have been for Zanardi's horrific accident at the Eau Rouge chicane at the belgian Grand Prix who knows where Alex would be today ? Here's hoping we see him in F1 again soon! Regards, Broady

Well... Maybe, but sometimes in F1 they overlook great talents... Take Thierry Boutsen for example... The only guy that could keep up with Senna in the rain... and even overtake him!!!! He never had the time to fully get into F1... Greets, Tonio

Boutsen was a driver who only drove well when he felt like it, some days he was great, other days it seemed he just couldn't be bothered. The only race I really remember between Senna and Boutsen was at Hungaroring in 1990, but it wasn't wet. Maybe Canada '89 was the race you are thinking of? I'm not sure, but in that race the fastest lap was set by Johnathon Palmer in a Tyrrell - I think that gives you some idea that it was an unusual race!! - Boutsen passed Senna while Senna went into the pits for slicks - Senna took the lead again as Boutsen pitted - Senna built a big lead - Senna and Boutsen both took on wets again - Boutsen has a HUGE spin as he makes a mistake at 150mph - Boutsen back into second as Patrese has undertray damage - Senna goes out of the race as his engine loses oil, Boutsen inherits the lead. At no time was Boutsen anywhere near Senna's pace, and he only won because Senna dropped out. He certainly didn't keep up with Senna, nor did he overtake him on the track. Or did you mean a different race? Cheers! John _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

> Yeah, right.... I'll take Villeneuve in a '96 Reynard Honda with Firestone > tires over any other F1 driver in a '96 F1 car. Let's see, how about running > a race on a 'neutral' track that neither series currently runs on, such as > Indiannapolis Motor Speedway. Yeah, those F1 cars will show just how fast > they really are. Really now, do you actually consider Indianapolis to be a "neutral" track? That is where "Indy"car design originated from and was the focal point of their series until this year (and would have continued so except for the horrid indy/IRL-situation). If you ever consider contesting an F1 car versus an Indycar on a road circuit, forget it! The F1 car is much lighter -- therefore more nimble and better hp/lb ratio -- and more advanced. It wouldn't be a contest. On an oval it would be a different story, and expectantly so. Here, I would expect the Indycars to have the home advantage (Formula one cars are not designed with oval racing in mind), especially on the superspeedways. But on the 1-mile ovals it may be a little more dicey (cornering speeds and acceleration would play a bigger factor, which are both F1 traits/advantages). Anyway, we could theorize all year on this one. Let's just enjoy both for what they have to offer. Personaly I think the cream of the crop rises to join F1 at present, but both series offer their own brand of e***ment!

<<If this is so true, then why doesn't F1 ever want indycars to race on their tracks? I remember hearing that for Brasil that F1 demanded that Indycars race elsewhere.>> Actually, that's a sort of "agreement" between the current regimes of each discipline. IndyCar doesn't race on any road courses or street circuits in Europe or Asia... just North America and Austrailia. Nick ______________________________________________________________________ #6 (will he be #28 in '97) & #94 in the *real* quest for the Cup My home away from home... http://www.mindspring.com/~ntotoro/ ______________________________________________________________________

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> <<If this is so true, then why doesn't F1 ever want indycars to > race on their tracks? I remember hearing that for Brasil that F1 > demanded that Indycars race elsewhere.>> > Actually, that's a sort of "agreement" between the current regimes > of each discipline. IndyCar doesn't race on any road courses or street > circuits in Europe or Asia... just North America and Austrailia.

Ummm...they both race in Brazil and Australia, and soon to be Japan.... They just don't race on the same tracks...FIA always signs exclusive agreements with the track managers. Neil -- Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.. Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

>If you ever consider contesting an F1 car versus an Indycar on a road >circuit, forget it! The F1 car is much lighter -- therefore more nimble >and better hp/lb ratio -- and more advanced. It wouldn't be a contest. If this is so true, then why doesn't F1 ever want indycars to race on their tracks? I remember hearing that for Brasil that F1 demanded that Indycars race elsewhere. Remember, we would know which is faster simply by track times. But it would be far more interesting to see them race on a "neutral course", if one could ever be discovered. I love both forms of racing; Indycar has ground effects downforce and more horsepower, F1 has better hp/lb and fancy brakes. It would be quite a spectacle to see them race at a road course deemed neutral for both- can you imagine all the passing on the straights, followed by the reverse at the ends-of-straights? It would be thrilling! Agreed.

It gets very ugly, but it was playable when I overclocked to 120Mhz (P150+). Depends on the circuit. Monaco=joke, Suzuka=full buntah. When the full version gets out a P100 gets the nod in SVGA so should be alright by then.

> Depends on the circuit. Monaco=joke, Suzuka=full buntah. How about a translation into the Queen's English? Thanks... :) Neil -- Meek and obedient you follow the leader down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.. Neil Yeatman, Ajax, Ontario, CANADA

"Full buntah" is a new one on me too, must be an English thing :) I suppose it means the same as "full Monty", or "everything on". Monaco is a joke with all detail on (it is too!), and Suzuka is supersmooth (not so much scenery to shift). Cheers! John PS - Monaco is fine when "toned down" a bit. Unfortunately it just looks too gorgeous to tone down :) _________________________________ __ _____| |_____ __ ________| |__| :| John Wallace | |__| |________ \ :| |::| :| Team WW Racing TSW | |::| | / > :| |::| :|_________________________________| |::| | < / :|__|::|____/ * Sim Racing News * \____|::|__| \ /______:/ \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/ \._____\ http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews