What is this game, and when is it coming out??
"Gunner"
ORSA #78 Navy Dodge
It looks like the next version of EA's NASCAR arcade racing series. I
just read an ad which labels the game as "the first PC racing sim that
you don't need a physics degree to drive." The first thing that came
to my mind is, if you don't need a "physics degree" (chuckle), how can
they call it a sim?
How you guys post messages like your driving the real thing. We play these
games to have fun, we are not driving the real thing. I have yet to see
someone who plays Nascar 2 or any other game.....err sim, turn pro and get
a ride with a REAL team.
-Reality Check
>>What is this game, and when is it coming out??
>It looks like the next version of EA's NASCAR arcade racing series. I
>just read an ad which labels the game as "the first PC racing sim that
>you don't need a physics degree to drive." The first thing that came
>to my mind is, if you don't need a "physics degree" (chuckle), how can
>they call it a sim?
> You guys crack me up. Dude I hate to burst your bubble but Nascar
> Revolution, Nascar 2, GPL, Viper, GP2, F1 Racing Sim ......ARE ALL GAMES !
> How you guys post messages like your driving the real thing. We play these
> games to have fun, we are not driving the real thing. I have yet to see
> someone who plays Nascar 2 or any other game.....err sim, turn pro and get
> a ride with a REAL team.
> -Reality Check
> >>What is this game, and when is it coming out??
> >It looks like the next version of EA's NASCAR arcade racing series. I
> >just read an ad which labels the game as "the first PC racing sim that
> >you don't need a physics degree to drive." The first thing that came
> >to my mind is, if you don't need a "physics degree" (chuckle), how can
> >they call it a sim?
Philster
What you get with a game that emphazises realism be it a Flight Combat or
Racing game is, people have to think what the cars or planes limits are at
so as not to exceed them. When you do exceed them and crash it can get
frustrating.
I aplaude EA Sports for coming out with Nascar Revolution. It's a "GAME"
where the computer does most of the work for you and you get the feeling
your in a race with a tough opponent.
If we had ALL the phyical aspect of a real race car under real racing
conditions built into one of these "GAMES" then they can truly be called a
sim and there wouldn't be a need for this discussion.
p.s - i'm not trolling, just looking to have an enlightened discussion on
the subject.
I hate to burst YOUR bubble but if you go to www.speedcenter.com you
can read the diaries of the infamous Darrell Cherry, who tore up
everyone on IndyCar and IndyCar II, then NASCAR/Hawaii. He went to
Skip Barber, and is doing quite well now in their series. Check out
the "So ya wanna be a CART driver" section.
Secondly, the guys at Papyrus have claimed that GPL has improved their
REAL driving in the Barber Dodge cars because as the physics model got
closer and closer to real life it acted as great training.
Finally, the borderline between a game and a simulation can often be
defined without regard to actual sim qualities of the product. That
is, a flight simulator that is used to train real pilots might be just
about as good on the PC, and just as valuable. Many real life pilots
do a lot of sim flying, particularly for instrument flying work,
because it has a direct beneficial effect on their skill without the
cost of doing it in real life. Is GPL a game? Yeah, sure it is. No
one denies that. But unlike most PC games, the addition of wheels and
pedals means that much of your physical behavior mimics and is
identical to your physical behavior in the car. The biggest
difference is "feel", but that's more a matter of getting your mind
trained to recognize audio/visual cues as opposed to physical cues.
Once the mind has become thus trained, the illusion is complete.
I have also gone out on the track after doing nothing but sims and
thanks to lots of muscle memory from sims, prevented my car from
spinning out more than once by doing exactly the right thing on the
throttle and steering. I doubt the instinctive responses I needed
would have been developed from day to day driving.
I find the entire issue of "is it a 'just a game" to be an incredibly
useless one, because those who argue "its just a game" are often
incredibly simplistic in their arguments. They make what they
perceived to be an irrefutable statement, while totally ignoring the
physical and mental benefits of being a sim driver. Another note,
aside from the fact that many real professional racers do enjoy racing
sims, even texts on REAL race driving make reference to them. In
"Think to Win" (which has a great forward from Mark Martin), video
games are brought up several times as a way to improve your visual
fields - e.g. what your eyes are focused on throughout the cornering
sequence.
GPL may be "just a game" to you, but it is far more than a game to
most of the people here who drive it and love it. My limited
experiences on real tracks with real cars has definitely validated the
time I spent in realistic racing sims.
Randy
>How you guys post messages like your driving the real thing. We play these
>games to have fun, we are not driving the real thing. I have yet to see
>someone who plays Nascar 2 or any other game.....err sim, turn pro and get
>a ride with a REAL team.
>-Reality Check
--Dave
--
Dave Schwabe
The Aussie Toad -- Grand Prix Legends & Brabham site
http://users.wi.net/~schwabe
> I hate to burst YOUR bubble but if you go to www.speedcenter.com you
> can read the diaries of the infamous Darrell Cherry, who tore up
> everyone on IndyCar and IndyCar II, then NASCAR/Hawaii. He went to
> Skip Barber, and is doing quite well now in their series. Check out
> the "So ya wanna be a CART driver" section.
> Secondly, the guys at Papyrus have claimed that GPL has improved their
> REAL driving in the Barber Dodge cars because as the physics model got
> closer and closer to real life it acted as great training.
> Finally, the borderline between a game and a simulation can often be
> defined without regard to actual sim qualities of the product. That
> is, a flight simulator that is used to train real pilots might be just
> about as good on the PC, and just as valuable. Many real life pilots
> do a lot of sim flying, particularly for instrument flying work,
> because it has a direct beneficial effect on their skill without the
> cost of doing it in real life. Is GPL a game? Yeah, sure it is. No
> one denies that. But unlike most PC games, the addition of wheels and
> pedals means that much of your physical behavior mimics and is
> identical to your physical behavior in the car. The biggest
> difference is "feel", but that's more a matter of getting your mind
> trained to recognize audio/visual cues as opposed to physical cues.
> Once the mind has become thus trained, the illusion is complete.
> I have also gone out on the track after doing nothing but sims and
> thanks to lots of muscle memory from sims, prevented my car from
> spinning out more than once by doing exactly the right thing on the
> throttle and steering. I doubt the instinctive responses I needed
> would have been developed from day to day driving.
> I find the entire issue of "is it a 'just a game" to be an incredibly
> useless one, because those who argue "its just a game" are often
> incredibly simplistic in their arguments. They make what they
> perceived to be an irrefutable statement, while totally ignoring the
> physical and mental benefits of being a sim driver. Another note,
> aside from the fact that many real professional racers do enjoy racing
> sims, even texts on REAL race driving make reference to them. In
> "Think to Win" (which has a great forward from Mark Martin), video
> games are brought up several times as a way to improve your visual
> fields - e.g. what your eyes are focused on throughout the cornering
> sequence.
> GPL may be "just a game" to you, but it is far more than a game to
> most of the people here who drive it and love it. My limited
> experiences on real tracks with real cars has definitely validated the
> time I spent in realistic racing sims.
> Randy
> >You guys crack me up. Dude I hate to burst your bubble but Nascar
> >Revolution, Nascar 2, GPL, Viper, GP2, F1 Racing Sim ......ARE ALL GAMES !
> >How you guys post messages like your driving the real thing. We play these
> >games to have fun, we are not driving the real thing. I have yet to see
> >someone who plays Nascar 2 or any other game.....err sim, turn pro and get
> >a ride with a REAL team.
> >-Reality Check
> Randy Magruder
> http://members.home.com/rmagruder
I see your point. But that fact is... since years and years the Hard-core
simracers and also the public has used words to determinate the difference.
Just think about them being semantics. We know they are all games. They are
purchased in the games section at a store. What we mean is that there's
virtual reality (we almost need to call this that now) that emphase on
realism (called sims) and others that emphase on the arcade style (called
arcade games).
It's just a way to differency the games. GPL is a sim, but Nascar
Revolution is an arcade game.
So another time... it's just the way we make the difference between 2given
racing software. We all know it's a game. But when your racing seriously
for prizes and cash like on the NROS, it's still a game or now a sport ? But
are sports games also ? Ha sorry, we talked about that for at least the past
4years here, and there's no official concensus yet.
-= Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-= NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-= SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-= Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-= May the Downforce be with you...
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
Although nobody from sim-racing has gotten ride with a major racing series,
that does not mean that they do not do any "real" racing. Serveral
sim-racers now drive street stocks, legends cars, and late models at their
local short tracks because of their love for racing in general. The NASCAR
Busch Series Champion Dale Earnhardt Jr. has raced hundreds of times on TEN
and he has said himself that it helps him in real life.
Gary243
When I see a 'racing game player' turn "Pro" i.e. get a ride with a real car
with a real team, and become very competitive, then I will turn see the
light.
p.s. just to let you guys know i'm enjoying the debate/discussion. this
isn't a troll.
>I hate to burst YOUR bubble but if you go to www.speedcenter.com you
>can read the diaries of the infamous Darrell Cherry, who tore up
>everyone on IndyCar and IndyCar II, then NASCAR/Hawaii. He went to
>Skip Barber, and is doing quite well now in their series. Check out
>the "So ya wanna be a CART driver" section.
>Secondly, the guys at Papyrus have claimed that GPL has improved their
>REAL driving in the Barber Dodge cars because as the physics model got
>closer and closer to real life it acted as great training.
>Finally, the borderline between a game and a simulation can often be
>defined without regard to actual sim qualities of the product. That
>is, a flight simulator that is used to train real pilots might be just
>about as good on the PC, and just as valuable. Many real life pilots
>do a lot of sim flying, particularly for instrument flying work,
>because it has a direct beneficial effect on their skill without the
>cost of doing it in real life. Is GPL a game? Yeah, sure it is. No
>one denies that. But unlike most PC games, the addition of wheels and
>pedals means that much of your physical behavior mimics and is
>identical to your physical behavior in the car. The biggest
>difference is "feel", but that's more a matter of getting your mind
>trained to recognize audio/visual cues as opposed to physical cues.
>Once the mind has become thus trained, the illusion is complete.
>I have also gone out on the track after doing nothing but sims and
>thanks to lots of muscle memory from sims, prevented my car from
>spinning out more than once by doing exactly the right thing on the
>throttle and steering. I doubt the instinctive responses I needed
>would have been developed from day to day driving.
>I find the entire issue of "is it a 'just a game" to be an incredibly
>useless one, because those who argue "its just a game" are often
>incredibly simplistic in their arguments. They make what they
>perceived to be an irrefutable statement, while totally ignoring the
>physical and mental benefits of being a sim driver. Another note,
>aside from the fact that many real professional racers do enjoy racing
>sims, even texts on REAL race driving make reference to them. In
>"Think to Win" (which has a great forward from Mark Martin), video
>games are brought up several times as a way to improve your visual
>fields - e.g. what your eyes are focused on throughout the cornering
>sequence.
>GPL may be "just a game" to you, but it is far more than a game to
>most of the people here who drive it and love it. My limited
>experiences on real tracks with real cars has definitely validated the
>time I spent in realistic racing sims.
>Randy
>>You guys crack me up. Dude I hate to burst your bubble but Nascar
>>Revolution, Nascar 2, GPL, Viper, GP2, F1 Racing Sim ......ARE ALL GAMES !
>>How you guys post messages like your driving the real thing. We play these
>>games to have fun, we are not driving the real thing. I have yet to see
>>someone who plays Nascar 2 or any other game.....err sim, turn pro and
get
>>a ride with a REAL team.
>>-Reality Check
>Randy Magruder
>http://members.home.com/rmagruder
We want as realistic an experience as possible. The general
public and most of the 'Gamer' crowd wants a quick fix that goes
fast <a la NFS 3>. While these games are enjoyable, they aren't
'racing' to the 'Sim Racer'. We want as much realism as possible.
There are 'games' and there are 'sims'. A game is something you can
play that is fun and fictitious. A sim is something that gives you the
'feel' of being in a race car and having to work and practice to
improve.
Is it the real thing? Is it going to get us a ride with a pro
team? No and No?
But the bottom line is for us Sim-Racing is about real
racing. NFS and the arcade games are games.
GPL, N2 is more 'real racing'.
-Richard
I've never said people who like realistic racing games aren't serious about
those games. I'm saying that there's a big difference between ficiton and
reality. The reality is we play these games and get good at them and there
are you're Micheal Schumacher's who make millions from racing and
endorsments.
The real drivers are earning millions of dollars from the real thing, while
we act out our dreams of being like them through a racing game.
This is not a flame on your statement. I understand what your saying, I just
see things a little differently.