rec.autos.simulators

by **Mike Radl** » Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>Mike, I can't say I've done comparisons, but I recently purchased the Dell
>Xps 233 mmx system, 32mb sdram, 12/24x cd rom drive, 4.3 gb hd, and altec
>lansing acs 490 surround sound speakers with 40 watt subwoofer. I also
>dropped my Sierra screamin 3d rendition card in it. The system absolutely
>rocks. I can run Nascar 2 with all graphics on, very smooth framerate. One
>race I set the min framerate for all graphics to 30, and they all stayed
>on.(don't remember which track) I also can run N1 with all graphics on. I
>have some other graphics intensive games, ie Janes Longbow and Mechwarrior
>Mercenaries,(not rendition games) which I can run with all detail on in
>640x480. I have had this system about a month now, and have been well
>pleased.

Thanks for the info Don! Now trade processors with Jay Taylor so we
can get some comparison data ;-)

Mike Radler

Hawaii Ace League http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Jim Sokolof** » Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> Isn't there something in N2 that is optimizes the steering when
> running a true Pentium chip? Has this been rectified with the patches?

Define "rectified"? Degrading the steering on Pentium's to be "equal" to
the non-Pentium chips? Or, making the non-Pentium chips work better than
they did? The former hasn't been done. The latter has.

---Jim

by **Mike Radl** » Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>Isn't there something in N2 that is optimizes the steering when
>running a true Pentium chip? Has this been rectified with the patches?

There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the
Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing.
The Intel Processor has an undocumented instruction that
solves the problem. Papy did send out a patch the "improves"
the Cyrix situation but It sounds like it still not as good as the
Intel. I do not know for sure if the AMD suffers from the same
problem but I have not seen any AMD owners complaining
about choppy controls. Maybe Jim Sokoloff knows.

Mike Radler

Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

by **Mike Radl** » Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the
>Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing.

Take two:
My limited understanding of the problem is that when the video board
takes over the bus for DMA it throws off the timing used to calibrate the
joystick. The Pentium has an instruction (RDTSC) that allows the new
routine to get around the problem. The Cyrix doesn't have this instruction
or an alternative therefore it's not 100% compatible and doesn't work very
well. Fortunately the Cyrix does work fine with the standard N2 and
Rendition nonDMA versions.

Mike Radler

Member - Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> There was a problem with the calibration routine when using the
> Cyrix processor and DMA. The dma screwed up the timing.
> The Intel Processor has an undocumented instruction that
> solves the problem. Papy did send out a patch the "improves"
> the Cyrix situation but It sounds like it still not as good as the
> Intel. I do not know for sure if the AMD suffers from the same
> problem but I have not seen any AMD owners complaining
> about choppy controls. Maybe Jim Sokoloff knows.

Just switched from a K6 to a Intel MMX this evening, and apart from
having to recalibrate the wheel, I did not notice any difference at all.

Beers and cheers
Goy

by **Mike Radl** » Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:00:00

>Just switched from a K6 to a Intel MMX this evening, and apart from
>having to recalibrate the wheel, I did not notice any difference at all.

Which model K6 did you have and which Intel MMX do you have
now. What about performance, any difference there?

Thanks for any insight,

Mike Radler

Hawaii Ace League http://www.dithots.org/hal

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> Which model K6 did you have and which Intel MMX do you have
> now. What about performance, any difference there?

Hi Mike

Well, it was a K6-233 o/c to 250 and I now have a P200MMX o/c to 208.

Performance; have not had time to check properly at N2 tracks(too busy
testing at Long Beach for the next round in TPTCC :-), but after reading
your post I had a quick blast at Watkins Glen, and I "feel" I get almost
the same frame rate, but that is a guestimate. This suggests to me that
N2 uses FPU to some degree, opinons anyone ?, because in GP2 the K6 is
way faster than an IntelMMX at the SAME clock speed, and noticeably so.

So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d
go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid
reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more
and more games use the FPU, then what ? I`ve been very happy with my K6
though, it has not given me any problems running games and Win95 apps,
unlike my old Cyrix150+, so AMD has done a good job here, it`s just that
it`s sort of "safe" to buy Intel, just like buying Microsoft operating
systems and Soundblaster cards, you know it may not be the best, but it
will be widely supported.

Beers and cheers
Goy

by **Eric Adam** » Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Where did you see this for $235 dollars?Cheapest I could find it was about
$297.I would definatly like to look in to this.

Thanks,Eric

If you want to reply by e-mail,
remove NO_SPAM from address

by **Jim Sokolof** » Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d
> go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid
> reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more
> and more games use the FPU, then what ?

From what I understand, GPL and future Papy sims (as well as many other
games, but who's worried about that? :-)) will use the FPU *HEAVILY*...
Something to keep in mind if *** is the main reason for upgrading...

---Jim

by **Goy Larse** » Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> > So wich one do you buy ? Well if you don`t have the money to gamble, I`d
> > go for the IntelMMX, because with an Intel you know what you get, solid
> > reliable performance, not that the K6 is bad, far from it, but if more
> > and more games use the FPU, then what ?

> From what I understand, GPL and future Papy sims (as well as many other
> games, but who's worried about that? :-)) will use the FPU *HEAVILY*...
> Something to keep in mind if *** is the main reason for upgrading...

> ---Jim

"Main" reason for upgrading, are there others you mean.............wow
!!!
Thanks for the input on FPU usage Jim, but do N2 use FPU ?

Beers and cheers
Goy

by **John Montes Jr** » Tue, 16 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> > Have to disagree slightly with you there Mikey. Yes it is fast, GP2
> for
> > one flies on a K6, have one myself so I know, and it compares well
> > against Intel on price, but it seems more and more games start to
> use
> > the FPU, and as with the Cyrix, that is not a strong point of the
> AMD.
> > Don`t know if N2 uses FPU though, but I`m sure someone else knows
> :-)

> Very true. Games like Quake and GP2 will run a little better with the
> Intel CPU. If you check out "The Mainboard Guide" web-site you will
> see that Intel is better for games due to its superior FPU. However,
> if you use your machine for other stuff then the AMD may be the
> better bet.

> > Fairly satisfied K6-233 owner

> Despite everything I went for the K6-233 as well and I'm pleased with
> the improvement over my P60 - well, who wouldn't be! ;o]

> --
> To reply, remove NOSMEG from e-mail address.

I'll have to agree with you there. I went from a P100 to a k6-233 and
i'm very pleased with it. N2 flies, as does GP2 and ICR2. I don't
play quake that much, so it doesn't matter for me there. I built this
system for sim racing.

john

by **Jim Sokolof** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> "Main" reason for upgrading, are there others you mean.............wow
> !!!
> Thanks for the input on FPU usage Jim, but do N2 use FPU ?

No.

---Jim

by **Jim Sokolof** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

> "Main" reason for upgrading, are there others you mean.............wow
> !!!
> Thanks for the input on FPU usage Jim, but do N2 use FPU ?

No.

---Jim

by **Sam Yeu** » Wed, 17 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Hmm,,

I was running on a plain Pentium 166 with a Matrox and N2 was running
okayish.. But to play smoothly I had to turn of the road textures.

Recently got me a Pentium II -266 with Matrox II, and now I can run
with everything on fine.. only very slight jumps when running down at
track with all cars in front and full textures on in full screen view.
But internal view is smooth like a dream all the time.

I think the most important issue here is wether you think games in the
future will be using the FPU, which we know Pentium Pros and II are
going kick ***in. Or if you think they will stick to mainly integer
routines, in which case obviously K6 and M2s are going to be much
faster.

Personally I think the PII are too expensive,thats likely to change,
but they are a good choice cos you know you'll be okay fo whatever
happens, FPU or no FPU. The MMX arguement is a waste of time now, cos
they all got em.

Sam

>>I am planning on upgrading my computer's CPU and would appreciate some
>>advice on which is the fit for N2. I would like to stay in the $200 price
>>range. Is there any major drawbacks to the Cyrix 200mmx in playing N2? Or
>>should I go with an Intel 166mmx (about the same price range).

>If $235 dollars is not too far to jump then I'd get an Intel 200MMX.
>The AMD K6 200MX is going for about $200 now. It's sounds like
>a pretty good processor but I'd do a little more research before I got
>one over the Intel. As far as Cyrix goes... you get what you pay for.
>You can keep up on the latest prices at:
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/

>If you can wait 2-3 months, the Intel 200MMX will probably be down
>in your price range. I'm planning on waiting for the 233MMX to come
>down so I can complete my NROS machine.

>BTW, Your motherboard must be able to support the MMX in order
>to use one of the above units.

>Mike Radler

>Hawaii Ace League http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Shum Chun Pong Bernar** » Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:00:00

: >
: > Despite everything I went for the K6-233 as well and I'm pleased with
: > the improvement over my P60 - well, who wouldn't be! ;o]
: >
: I'll have to agree with you there. I went from a P100 to a k6-233 and
: i'm very pleased with it. N2 flies, as does GP2 and ICR2. I don't
: play quake that much, so it doesn't matter for me there. I built this
: system for sim racing.

But the K6 doesn't got a pipelined FPU. And there is only 1 MMX unit in a
K6. I think maybe a P200MMX will outperform the K6 in most games today.
Consider that they are roughly the same price.

Bernard Shum

rec.autos.simulators

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