rec.autos.simulators

by **mas..** » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00

Hmmm, wonder why there aren't any posts on this one yet, given it is the next
gp? I know you guys have tried it. Has anyone been able to complete a clean
lap yet? I didn't, until I upped the steering lock. "But it is already maxed
out at 25 degrees. How did you make it larger?" Go to your
save/[playername]/settings directory, unzip the svm file of choice. Extract
it and then use a text editor. Change the "steering_ratio" value under
[CONTROLS]. The units are radians (I radian = 57.3 degrees). So your
present value is probably 0.436 rad (= 25.0 degrees). I upped mine all the
way to 0.6 (=34.4 degrees) and now can negotiate Loews and the ultra-evil La
Rascasse. Just watch out for the fast response of your wheel/stick. Don't
try to change it from in-game as you'll again be limited to 25 degrees. All
changes must be via your svm file and text editor.

Still, I don't find it much in the way of entertainment. And my present
best 1:23.0 isn't going to win any awards. Comments on track accuracy, or
lack thereof, sure to follow...

by **Iain Mackenzi** » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00

I had no problem completing laps, and won the GP (after several attempts) in
my 100% skill championship. I used a slightly tweaked setup that I got from
bhmotorsport.com.
Iain

by **Darko Juva** » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00

svm files are binary files and there is not [CONTROLS] section nor
steering_ratio value. I scanned whole F12000 directory tree and only found
"[CONTROLS]" and "steering_ratio" in F1_2000.exe (also binary file).

I'm having the same problem in Monaco as you did. I rolled back to v1.04
where I don't have steering lock problem. That would be great if I can fix
this and use v1.06 which has a lot better AI cars.

Can you make sure WHERE, WHAT and HOW did you change steering_ratio
settings.

Thanks.

Darko

PS
Is that problem for all with v1.06 or it's just for some of us with
particular PC, setting, wheel...

by **mas..** » Sun, 28 May 2000 04:00:00

>svm files are binary files and there is not [CONTROLS] section nor
>steering_ratio value. I scanned whole F12000 directory tree and only found
>"[CONTROLS]" and "steering_ratio" in F1_2000.exe (also binary file).

The svm files are archives. So, fire up winzip (or probably similar), select
the file, and it *will* allow you to extract it to an ascii file. As you
noticed, you can't open the svm directly with a text editor. Again, just
start winzip, select the file, like default.svm in your settings folder, and
extract it. Then follow the instructions per my previous post.

Can't say on the latter, though Ian says he's able to race it. FWIW, I use a
joystick and pedals (CH F16 CS and CH Pro Pedals).

by **Brian V. Balgobin** » Mon, 29 May 2000 04:00:00

you perhaps have all player cars equal off in 1.06? cause that makes the car
slower...looks like you brake too late and can't steer in properly.....i
turned it on again and improved almost 4 seconds to a 15.6

Brian "Racing Doctor" Balgobind

> svm files are binary files and there is not [CONTROLS] section nor
> steering_ratio value. I scanned whole F12000 directory tree and only found
> "[CONTROLS]" and "steering_ratio" in F1_2000.exe (also binary file).

> I'm having the same problem in Monaco as you did. I rolled back to v1.04
> where I don't have steering lock problem. That would be great if I can fix
> this and use v1.06 which has a lot better AI cars.

> Can you make sure WHERE, WHAT and HOW did you change steering_ratio
> settings.

> Thanks.

> Darko

> PS
> Is that problem for all with v1.06 or it's just for some of us with
> particular PC, setting, wheel...

> > Hmmm, wonder why there aren't any posts on this one yet, given it is the
> next
> > gp? I know you guys have tried it. Has anyone been able to complete a
> clean
> > lap yet? I didn't, until I upped the steering lock. "But it is already
> maxed
> > out at 25 degrees. How did you make it larger?" Go to your
> > save/[playername]/settings directory, unzip the svm file of choice.
> Extract
> > it and then use a text editor. Change the "steering_ratio" value under
> > [CONTROLS]. The units are radians (I radian = 57.3 degrees). So your
> > present value is probably 0.436 rad (= 25.0 degrees). I upped mine all
> the
> > way to 0.6 (=34.4 degrees) and now can negotiate Loews and the
ultra-evil
> La
> > Rascasse. Just watch out for the fast response of your wheel/stick.
> Don't
> > try to change it from in-game as you'll again be limited to 25 degrees.
> All
> > changes must be via your svm file and text editor.

> > Still, I don't find it much in the way of entertainment. And my present
> > best 1:23.0 isn't going to win any awards. Comments on track accuracy,
or
> > lack thereof, sure to follow...

by **Carl Ribbegaard** » Mon, 29 May 2000 04:00:00

Cool, since I've actually turned down steering lock to 16deg...
(dx 0% deadzone, f12k deadzone 2% sensitivity 100%, wingman force)
FF rocks w/o patch!

/Carl

(Isn't the tunnel somewhat narrow?)

by **Eric Fesl** » Wed, 31 May 2000 04:00:00

Snipped Everything

Am I missing something here? Everyone keeps saying how great this sim
is yet I set 100% realism (no steering etc help) and laps are just
pathetically easy. You can just toss the car around and it is easy to
recover. Either I am missing a second page of realism options or F1
cars got alot easier to drive in the last year.

Eric

by **mas..** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>Snipped Everything

>Am I missing something here? Everyone keeps saying how great this sim
>is yet I set 100% realism (no steering etc help) and laps are just
>pathetically easy. You can just toss the car around and it is easy to
>recover. Either I am missing a second page of realism options or F1
>cars got alot easier to drive in the last year.

I know I' ve pointed out a lot of shortcomings.
Yes, it does seem a lot easier to drive than F1RS or MGPRS2. I can't honestly
say whether that is more realistic, or not. It strikes me more like high
performance cars I've had the pleasure of driving. But then again, I sure
haven't driven anything like a real race car, let alone an F1 car. I've read
some reports that say they are true beasts, others that say they aren't that
bad. There was an excellent story in C&D about 1-2 years back on driving a
'94 Arrows car (at Mosport?). He found it easier to drive than the preceding
car which, I don't recall, but was something like an F2000 car?

When I push the F12K cars for a personal best, it does get a lot harder than
an 8/10ths or 9/10ths lap. But yes, maybe it is too easy.

As to your last line, did you drive an F1 car in the last year, or are you
just referring to the last sim you tried?

by No » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You think so? I drove F12K and MGPRS2 back to back and F12K seemed
harder to me. MGPRS2 felt like it was on rails in comparison.

--
Nos

by **mas..** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>>I know I' ve pointed out a lot of shortcomings.
>>Yes, it does seem a lot easier to drive than F1RS or MGPRS2.

>You think so? I drove F12K and MGPRS2 back to back and F12K seemed
>harder to me. MGPRS2 felt like it was on rails in comparison.

Different strokes? Or controllers? Its been a while since I played MGPRS2,
but I still remember it being very touchy with both throttle (especially
starts) and brakes. Easy to spin the tires, or the car. Very hard to catch a
slide once it starts. Yes, it did feel on rails, but once you came off
said rails...
Maybe part is a setup issue. Was it F1RS or MGPRS2 or both that came with
very understeering default setups?

Anyway, it (MGPRS2 rather than F12K) does feel a lot more twitchy and on/off
like the low-power go karts I've driven. But perhaps too twitchy. And no
feel for the car's inertia. Which may be true when driving an over-tired,
ground-effects, 1500 lb machine with 800 hp. Perhaps fortunately, I don't
have the experience to say :-)

by **Iain Mackenzi** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You're right, and that is why F12K is more realistic in handling than F1RS
and MGPRS2. In the (very good) Ubi titles, the throttle was twitchy, but
most importantly, when the car started to slide, you had no control at all -
no way of recovering. In F12K push a little too hard and you begin to lose
control, but with some skill - lighten up on throttle, reverse lock, etc. -
it can be recovered.
The start is a good example of this. It is easy to get wheelspin in F12K if
you have just a little too much throttle, but again this can be recovered -
although the 10 places you lose can't!
Iain

by No » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Yes, MGPRS2 is twitchy and that's another reason I think F12K is the
better sim. Just the overall feel in F12K is better for me.
--
Nos

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> Yes, MGPRS2 is twitchy and that's another reason I think F12K is the
> better sim. Just the overall feel in F12K is better for me.
> --
> Nos

The physics model of F12k is by far superior to any other modern f1 sim,
which can be checked by simply looking at the things that are modelled
if you open the .veh files. But the same files also show that, while the
sim engine is superb, some parameters were obviously tweaked for
playability.

Most notably, the inertia values are much too high considering the
dimensions and the mass of the F1 car. Also, the tyres are much to
flexible meaning that the optimal grip is reached at too large slip
angles.

I went and modified these values for all the cars. I cut the inertia
values in half, but they should be even somewhat lower than that
considering the real life parameters. I also increased the tyre
stiffness parameters by 50%. Even that could be a bit higher. I didn't
do it though since playability would suffer at a point, but most
importantly the AI start to have trouble controlling these much more
responsive cars even with these smaller modifications at certain tracks.

You can download the modified files for all cars from

http://www.uni-mb.si/~ucamtpgvn/VehNew.zip

and extract them into your Season00/Vehicles folder. To restore the
original settings, use the files

http://www.uni-mb.si/~ucamtpgvn/VehOld.zip

in the same manner.

-Gregor

by **mas..** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

>> Yes, MGPRS2 is twitchy and that's another reason I think F12K is the
>> better sim. Just the overall feel in F12K is better for me.
>> --
>> Nos

Yes, it has me wondering as to which is more realistic in that regard. When
watching an F1 in-car shot, it seems the car is incredibly twitchy/responsive
and catching a slide takes the utmost in reaction time. Still, is MGPRS2
going overboard? I really have no way of knowing. I do know which I find
more enjoyable :-)

I've looked at it in the past. You've peaked my curiosity, so I might do so
again. But have you looked under the "hood" to know what is in the sim engine
of MGPRS2, or other titles?

Are they in obvious units, and do you know the real values well enough to
state that they are wrong, or going by feel? Honest Q, I'm not trying to
be argumentative. Just curious. I might do some fiddling myself.

Interesting stuff.

Thanks!

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 01 Jun 2000 04:00:00

> Are they in obvious units, and do you know the real values well enough to
> state that they are wrong, or going by feel? Honest Q, I'm not trying to
> be argumentative. Just curious. I might do some fiddling myself.

Yes, the units in the sim are the standard metric units (kg, m, s and so
on), which can be seen by for example checking the mass (above 600 kg,
which it should be) and the dimensions of parts (wheels for example).

How to see that the inertia values are too high? Take for example the
inertia for the roll axis (the axis along the length of the car, which
has the lowest inertia value). The width of the car is 1.80m, so the
maximum distance of any part of the car from this axis is not much more
than 1m. Now if all the mass of the car was concentrated at the distance
1m from this axis the inertia value would be exactly 600 kg m^2 (mass
multiplied by the average squared distance from the center). In the sim,
this value is 1000, and the other inertia values are even higher. I
decreased all the sim inertia values to half the original ones, but this
is still too much. I believe the proper roll axis inertia value should
be around 300 kg m^2 or even less, simply because the mass is
concentrated quite close to the c.o.g. and not uniformly over the width
of the car.

What I find amazing is that the car handles much like the one in Grand
Prix 2 now, and would do even more so if the inertia values are
decreased further and the tyre stiffness put higher.

-Gregor

rec.autos.simulators

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)

F12K: Monaco, ughh! (and helpful hint)