rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:46:42

The problems running a full field race at this track are so plentiful and
absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a NASCAR title
with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI. I was
wrong.

And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have only tried
a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has release-quality AI.

Marc.

--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

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by **Cliff Roma** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:55:48

It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

****************************************************************************

> Marc Collins

> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?

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- Show quoted text -

by **Roger** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:01:44

How many negative posts about N4 does this make Mark? Are you on a mission?
Notify Papy about the problems or don't bother with the sim and go back to
playing Heat. Your constant ranting and whinning is non-productive.Its a
great
sim and I enjoy it alot, it has its shortcomings as all new releases do, but
not as
many as that other release ! (Even after the Patch) Don't like it ? Don't
play it !
That simple.

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:46:01

Do you have anything to say about what I said...or are you just concerned
that I am asking a question or voicing an opinion? If it is the former,
please tell us what you think of the Martinsville AI...or the other glaring
AI problems in N4. I did not believe I would see the day that something
this rough would come from Papy.

If it is the latter, don't waste your breath (or typing). People who reply
to messages about a specific topic with retorts that the person shouldn't
comment or should stop complaining or should go write their own game
software or should go play some other game are pedantic, undemocratic,
bandwidth-wasting annoyances. If you don't have something specific to
say--and--if you just don't like the original message, then ignore it. It's
quite a simple process. Try it more often.

Marc.

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:46:34

Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
testing cracks?

Marc.

> It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

> > The problems running a full field race at this track are so plentiful
and
> > absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

> > My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a NASCAR
> title
> > with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI. I
was
> > wrong.

> > And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have only
> tried
> > a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has release-quality
> AI.

> > Marc.

> > --

****************************************************************************

> > Marc Collins

> > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Cliff Roma** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:55:02

Just time constraints.. Although Papy would know more about the details than
I would

Trust me, the patch will take care of alot of issues. I truely believe this
sim when they are done will be the Best around.

> Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
> testing cracks?

> Marc.

> > It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

> > > The problems running a full field race at this track are so plentiful
> and
> > > absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

> > > My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a NASCAR
> > title
> > > with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI. I
> was
> > > wrong.

> > > And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have only
> > tried
> > > a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has
release-quality
> > AI.

> > > Marc.

> > > --

****************************************************************************

> > > Marc Collins

> > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Kai Fulle** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:55:33

I doubt it slipped through the cracks...

I think the real issue is that developers are having a hard time developing
AI for a detailed 3D simulation. GPL was good, but couldn't even drive
ovals.

SCGT certainly had it's problems, and NH did as well.

I think there are some AI issues that need to be worked out, and we will
continue to see this since it is proving difficult for the programmers. You
guys act as if this is all really easy stuff, but AI can be very
complicated, so it's not a BUG I don't think, it's incomplete, because it
had to ship someday.

> Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
> testing cracks?

> Marc.

> > It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

> > > The problems running a full field race at this track are so plentiful
> and
> > > absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

> > > My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a NASCAR
> > title
> > > with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI. I
> was
> > > wrong.

> > > And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have only
> > tried
> > > a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has
release-quality
> > AI.

> > > Marc.

> > > --

****************************************************************************

> > > Marc Collins

> > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:56:29

It certainly has that potential. The basic platform is great....I am just a
bit shocked that Papy would release something this "early" in the
development process. I blabbered-off to the NH people about how it would
never happen with N4. Everyone knew N4 would need patching and that it
wouldn't be perfect, but this is a bit extreme in my judgement.

Marc.

> Just time constraints.. Although Papy would know more about the details
than
> I would

> Trust me, the patch will take care of alot of issues. I truely believe
this
> sim when they are done will be the Best around.

> > Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
> > testing cracks?

> > Marc.

> > > It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

> > > > The problems running a full field race at this track are so
plentiful
> > and
> > > > absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

> > > > My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a
NASCAR
> > > title
> > > > with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI.
I
> > was
> > > > wrong.

> > > > And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have
only
> > > tried
> > > > a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has
> release-quality
> > > AI.

> > > > Marc.

> > > > --

****************************************************************************

> > > > Marc Collins

> > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > > > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:59:10

Interesting suggestion...

It would certainly go a long way to explain why the NH patch is taking so
long. But it is worrisome if this is best AI all those great and
experienced brains at Papy and MGI can come up with.

I fiddled with the AI a bit in NL (to improve the Daytona port). I know it
is very complicated.

Marc.

> I doubt it slipped through the cracks...

> I think the real issue is that developers are having a hard time
developing
> AI for a detailed 3D simulation. GPL was good, but couldn't even drive
> ovals.

> SCGT certainly had it's problems, and NH did as well.

> I think there are some AI issues that need to be worked out, and we will
> continue to see this since it is proving difficult for the programmers.
You
> guys act as if this is all really easy stuff, but AI can be very
> complicated, so it's not a BUG I don't think, it's incomplete, because it
> had to ship someday.

> > Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
> > testing cracks?

> > Marc.

> > > It is a problem that is definately known about by Papy.

> > > > The problems running a full field race at this track are so
plentiful
> > and
> > > > absurd it's not even worth listing them here.

> > > > My apologies to the NH crew. I said Papy would never release a
NASCAR
> > > title
> > > > with ludicrous, obviously untested or far from ready to release AI.
I
> > was
> > > > wrong.

> > > > And Martinsville may be the worst example (I don't know as I have
only
> > > tried
> > > > a few tracks), but I haven't seen any track yet that has
> release-quality
> > > AI.

> > > > Marc.

> > > > --

****************************************************************************

> > > > Marc Collins

> > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > > > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Marc Collin** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:33:06

I just looked...and your point is not clear. I still believe that it is
unreasonable to ask Papy to include a feature in a game that is essentially
impossible--multiple processor support on an O/S that doesn't support
multiple processors. Instead of calling the person a moron or telling them
to shut up, I thought I would use a bit of sarcasm.

What I said was:

"Do we know of any program that takes advantage of multiple processors that
doesn't run on a multiple-processor-enabled O/S?"

Do you have an answer? Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? Why ask for
something that is impossible and unheard of? I don't call that a
straightforward question. There are enough problems with N4 that we don't
need Papy going off on some quadruple PhD research project to figure out
whether they can get multiple processor support into Win9x. Eric Busch gave
the same answer to the question...albeit in a more straightforward manner.

As for your request that I shut up: let me know when you are in a position
to tell anyone, let alone me, to shut up. Before you answer, remember I am
not your dog or your lackie. This is an international public forum.

Marc.

> Marc, you're an idiot. Take a look back at the thread titled "N4 -
> Important Question". Re-read your response to some straightforward
> questions the poster asked.

> Take some of your own medicine and shut up.

> On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:46:01 GMT, "Marc Collins"

> >Do you have anything to say about what I said...or are you just concerned
> >that I am asking a question or voicing an opinion? If it is the former,
> >please tell us what you think of the Martinsville AI...or the other
glaring
> >AI problems in N4. I did not believe I would see the day that something
> >this rough would come from Papy.

> >If it is the latter, don't waste your breath (or typing). People who
reply
> >to messages about a specific topic with retorts that the person shouldn't
> >comment or should stop complaining or should go write their own game
> >software or should go play some other game are pedantic, undemocratic,
> >bandwidth-wasting annoyances. If you don't have something specific to
> >say--and--if you just don't like the original message, then ignore it.
It's
> >quite a simple process. Try it more often.

> >Marc.

> >> How many negative posts about N4 does this make Mark? Are you on a
> >mission?
> >> Notify Papy about the problems or don't bother with the sim and go back
to
> >> playing Heat. Your constant ranting and whinning is non-productive.Its
a
> >> great
> >> sim and I enjoy it alot, it has its shortcomings as all new releases
do,
> >but
> >> not as
> >> many as that other release ! (Even after the Patch) Don't like it ?
Don't
> >> play it !
> >> That simple.

by **Roger** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:39:26

Hmmmmmmmmm...........Nuff said .

by **Todd Sorense** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:05:38

Ouch!!

by **ymenar** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:14:23

> Any ideas how it (and problems at many other tracks) slipped through the
> testing cracks?

There isn't any major AI problems at other tracks, just at Martinsville. As
I would say, "shit happens". The fact that the AI is the most advanced in
any racing sim _ever_ is enough to compensate the AI problem at
Martinsville.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **ymenar** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:16:53

> I am just a bit shocked that Papy would release something this "early" in
the
> development process.

Where do you see such "early" things in Nascar Racing 4? It's probably the
MOST completed software I have ever seen. The amount of gameplay and
features is amazingly high. But hey, any software will have it's small
problems and N4 isn't an exception. I don't know why you are shocked,
Papyrus isn't God-like and everybody accepts some problems with shipping
software. Like any other developer in the industry. Just remember GPL, N1,
Icr2,N2,N3 out of the box.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **ymenar** » Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:42:14

Well you have a short memory.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

rec.autos.simulators

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?

I guess Papy forgot to test Martinsville?