rec.autos.simulators

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:12:52

> > I'm not sure it's a Papyrus problem since it is associated with your
> > hardware not being able to deal with copy protection that Papyrus uses.
> They
> > are aware of the problem and if there is anything they can do I'm sure
> they
> > will. There is always a money back guarantee offered by Sierra.

> > --
> It is Papyrus' problem. They knew the scheme they were using caused
> problems and they could have used a different scheme. It's very easy to
get
> N4 on the net, so what's the sense?

> Alanb

There is no way any producer can produce a game that is guarenteed to work
on 100% of the systems out there.

Don Burnette

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:19:21

Well I tell you what guys, you might as well get used to it as more and more
companies are going to newer types of security for their games, thanks to
all the crooks out there. It's sad that they have to do this, but I don't
blame them one bit. I would absolutely love to see them come out with a
security program that simply could not be hacked.
I tell ya, I love Papy sims, and while I did not have a problem with my
cd-rom or my cd-rw, if I had I would not have hesitated to run out and buy a
cheap cd-rom drive so I could play the thing. I can see where many would not
want to do this, however your going to run into this problem again as newer
games come out I suspect.

--
Don Burnette

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:20:59

Good luck Steve, definetly let us know how you make out.

--
Don Burnette

> I'm happy for you that you haven't seen the problem, but I have it and I'm
> not alone. Still searching for a solution. I have an old CD-ROM. Think
> I'll try the cheap/newer route. Will report progress in a few days.

> > In our JustRacin group, which is pretty large group, we haven't seen a
> > single case of this problem either.

> > Tom

> > > You're making assumptions with out having any facts. There is a very
> small
> > > percentage that are having problems which is probably a lot less than
> 1%.
> > > papyrun doesn't know what hardware everyone has in there computer and
it
> > is
> > > virtually impossible to test every possible combination. I can tell
you
> > that
> > > we did not have one instance where it was a problem in testing and I
can
> > > launch N4 from either my HP CDR and my CD-Rom. Good luck with your
warez
> > > version.

> > > --
> > > Mike Grandy
> > > Precision Racing
> > > www.precision-racing.com

> > > > > I'm not sure it's a Papyrus problem since it is associated with
your
> > > > > hardware not being able to deal with copy protection that Papyrus
> > uses.
> > > > They
> > > > > are aware of the problem and if there is anything they can do I'm
> sure
> > > > they
> > > > > will. There is always a money back guarantee offered by Sierra.

> > > > > --
> > > > It is Papyrus' problem. They knew the scheme they were using caused
> > > > problems and they could have used a different scheme. It's very
easy
> to
> > > get
> > > > N4 on the net, so what's the sense?

> > > > Alanb

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:22:46

LOL, I think you should definitely return your game AND your cd-rom drive.
Pickup Nascar Revolution, you'll be much happier.
:)

--
Don Burnette

> Let me guess, this suggestion came from Sierra tech support. Might as
well
> contact our cdrom manufacturer to fix any bugs the game has too.

> > Alastair,

> > I've seen some suggestions elsewhere that you need to contact the
> > manufacturer of your CD-ROM drive to find out when(if) they plan to
> > implement support for SecureRom copy protection.

> > --
> > Jeff Causey
> > FrogDog Racing
> > www.frogdogracing.com
> > Home of the FrogDog *** Racing School
> > Member of the raceserver.net network of servers

> > > How long of a wait for the "2 or 3 percent" of us that can't get N4 to
> > run?
> > > How many are there, really? I am pissed! I have this game that I spent
> my
> > > $50.00 on just sitting here doing nothing! I have NEVER had this
problem
> > > with any other game. Does anyone from papy read this NG? I have
e-mailed
> > > tech support three days ago and I haven't heard a peep from them. If
you
> > > can't get N4 to run, please say so here. I would like to know that at
> > least
> > > I am not alone. Thanks for letting me rant.

> > > --
> > > Alastair Ingram
> > > www.saxlessons.com

by **Alan Bernard** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:48:46

Mike,

There's no way to fix it. I have a CD-RW that is three months old and it
doesn't work when I use that drive either.

My argument stands. Papyrus is not going to stop illegal copying. Folks
will figure a way to circumvent the system. Why not use a scheme that
doesn't have known problems, when no matter what scheme is used it will be
pirated? In doing what they've done, Papyrus has forced me to take other
routes. My CD drives are pretty new; and still the thing doesn't work. I'm
not about to go out and get another CD ROM. The one I have is fine, except
for it won't run N4.

I think Papyrus should fix this: it's only fair.

Case closed,

Alanb

by **Alan Bernard** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:50:32

That's not the point. The point is that Papyrus knew their scheme would
cause some problems. So they did know that on some systems their game would
not run.

Alanb

by **Wayne Hutchiso** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:53:54

So you want Papyrus to fix your hardware problems? Maybe your CDROM
manufacturer will fix any bugs in N4 then? Get real. My money's on Papyrus
in this one...

If you don't have the hardware to run the game, trade it in for Solitaire or
something similar. No need to copy protect that...

Wayne Hutchison

> Let me guess, this suggestion came from Sierra tech support. Might as
well
> contact our cdrom manufacturer to fix any bugs the game has too.

> > Alastair,

> > I've seen some suggestions elsewhere that you need to contact the
> > manufacturer of your CD-ROM drive to find out when(if) they plan to
> > implement support for SecureRom copy protection.

> > --
> > Jeff Causey
> > FrogDog Racing
> > www.frogdogracing.com
> > Home of the FrogDog *** Racing School
> > Member of the raceserver.net network of servers

> > > How long of a wait for the "2 or 3 percent" of us that can't get N4 to
> > run?
> > > How many are there, really? I am pissed! I have this game that I spent
> my
> > > $50.00 on just sitting here doing nothing! I have NEVER had this
problem
> > > with any other game. Does anyone from papy read this NG? I have
e-mailed
> > > tech support three days ago and I haven't heard a peep from them. If
you
> > > can't get N4 to run, please say so here. I would like to know that at
> > least
> > > I am not alone. Thanks for letting me rant.

> > > --
> > > Alastair Ingram
> > > www.saxlessons.com

by **Cliff Roma** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:03:23

There is not a program out there on the market that runs on all systems.

Every software developer knows that it will not run on all systems.
Unfortunately with the way PCs are with 2000 different CD-Roms, 500
different motherboards, etc.. we will always have to live with that. To
this day I can not get Thief or Thief 2 to run on my system and I bought
both, but when they would not run.. I took them back. I was not happy
about it, but sometimes you just have to understand why and take it as bad
luck of the draw.

I seriously hope that Papy does come up with a fix, everyone should be able
to enjoy this great game :)

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:26:26

> Well I tell you what guys, you might as well get used to it as more and more
> companies are going to newer types of security for their games, thanks to
> all the crooks out there. It's sad that they have to do this, but I don't
> blame them one bit.

Let me get this straight. Because of all these stinking crooks out
there, it's perfectly okay & logical to you for Papy to use a protection
scheme that doesn't make the pirates so much as miss a beat but yet
penalizes the legitimate owners who paid for their software? Hello??
There seems to be a hole in this logic. Now if the pirates were
virtually stopped with this technology, I suppose one could argue that
those who were having trouble were just a necessary "price" for the
protection. But such is far from the case.

Works great on my system, BTW, but I still think it's BS. It doesn't
have to happen to me directly for me to get indignant over the treatment
legitimate paying consumers are getting.

--

Fester

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:37:09

Yes, I do think it is logical. While it may not stop them, I am quite
certain it makes it at the least more difficult on them, and who knows,
maybe someday it will become almost impossible for them to copy.
I do agree it's a shame it ends up penalizing some folks that have no
wrongful intentions. I hope a fix can be made for them.

--
Don Burnette

> > Well I tell you what guys, you might as well get used to it as more and
more
> > companies are going to newer types of security for their games, thanks
to
> > all the crooks out there. It's sad that they have to do this, but I
don't
> > blame them one bit.

> Let me get this straight. Because of all these stinking crooks out
> there, it's perfectly okay & logical to you for Papy to use a protection
> scheme that doesn't make the pirates so much as miss a beat but yet
> penalizes the legitimate owners who paid for their software? Hello??
> There seems to be a hole in this logic. Now if the pirates were
> virtually stopped with this technology, I suppose one could argue that
> those who were having trouble were just a necessary "price" for the
> protection. But such is far from the case.

> Works great on my system, BTW, but I still think it's BS. It doesn't
> have to happen to me directly for me to get indignant over the treatment
> legitimate paying consumers are getting.

> --

> Fester

by **Mike Grand** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:41:05

Like Don said, take it back to the store or Sierra and get a refund. Sorry
you'll miss out on a great sim.

--
Mike Grandy
Precision Racing
www.precision-racing.com

by **Mike Grand** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:43:55

I missed the small writing on the box that said "Guaranteed to work on any
and all systems regardless or any hardware conflicts". Guess I should have
read it better. Like I said before, if you want it to run, it can run.

--
Mike Grandy
Precision Racing
www.precision-racing.com

> > Well I tell you what guys, you might as well get used to it as more and
more
> > companies are going to newer types of security for their games, thanks
to
> > all the crooks out there. It's sad that they have to do this, but I
don't
> > blame them one bit.

> Let me get this straight. Because of all these stinking crooks out
> there, it's perfectly okay & logical to you for Papy to use a protection
> scheme that doesn't make the pirates so much as miss a beat but yet
> penalizes the legitimate owners who paid for their software? Hello??
> There seems to be a hole in this logic. Now if the pirates were
> virtually stopped with this technology, I suppose one could argue that
> those who were having trouble were just a necessary "price" for the
> protection. But such is far from the case.

> Works great on my system, BTW, but I still think it's BS. It doesn't
> have to happen to me directly for me to get indignant over the treatment
> legitimate paying consumers are getting.

> --

> Fester

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:45:31

That wouldn't help my problem if I had no access to a second drive on
another machine. The install craps out at the second file every time...asks
me to put the CD in blue screen of death routine.

If Sierra doesn't fix this, I'll just burn a copy of the installation files
and use a No-Cd patch--and play N4 for free. I gladly paid for N4 and I
would gladly pay triple for GPL. But if Sierra won't fix this, I'll be
using it for free...you (and they) have my word on that. I have never had a
single with this high quality name brand DVD player, including lots of
other Sierra titles. They screwed something up this time and they should be
willing to fix it.

Marc.

> I doubt that they will replace the CDs, just guessing but what I think
they
> would do is in the patch change it so that it does not look for the CD in
> the drive and then just rely on the cd-key for online protection.

> That is honestly just a guess

> > I have a CD-ROM that won't install on my system (Panasonic DVD player),
> but
> > would install (at 1/100th the normal speed) through a mapped drive to a
> > CD-ROM on another machine over my LAN. The Panasonic can get enough of
a
> > signal from the disc to launch the game on my machine.

> > If I return it, I can' it use it at all. If I wait, it will undoubtedly
> be
> > past the return period.

> > Sierra needs to say, now, that they will replace the CD's for those
people
> > with problems at the point of sale.

> > Marc.

> > > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:19:12 GMT, "Alastair Ingram"

> > > >How long of a wait for the "2 or 3 percent" of us that can't get N4
to
> > run?
> > > >How many are there, really? I am pissed! I have this game that I
spent
> my
> > > >$50.00 on just sitting here doing nothing! I have NEVER had this
> problem
> > > >with any other game. Does anyone from papy read this NG? I have
> e-mailed
> > > >tech support three days ago and I haven't heard a peep from them. If
> you
> > > >can't get N4 to run, please say so here. I would like to know that at
> > least
> > > >I am not alone. Thanks for letting me rant.

> > > Alastair, why don't you return the game and wait for the fix?
> > > If you bought it somewhere that won't take it back, then
> > > Sierra has a money-back guarantee. You can find out about it
> > > on their site. www.sierra.com

> > > I can really understand your frustration, though.

by **Joe6** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:58:25

>Well I tell you what guys, you might as well get used to it as more and more
>companies are going to newer types of security for their games, thanks to
>all the crooks out there.

One more time: It is NOT thanks to "all the crooks out there". It is
thanks to pea-brained technologically ignorant suits at Sierra who
can't get it through their infinitely thick skills that copy
protection has always had exactly one function - inconveniencing
legitimate customers. Period.

Joe McGinn
_____________________
Radical Entertainment

by **b.driscol** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:26:27

OK, I have a HP 8520i 4x4x24 cdrw. Is this why N4 won't run?? I paid and
registered the software but it won't work...I dwnlwded the no cd patch
and it goes thru all the start up stuff with out the cd and hangs at the
configuration screen. I'm figuring the cd is probably ok but my video
card (ATI rage pro Turbo AGP 2x with I think 4 or 8mb of ram) might be
the problem.... Whacha think??

Personally I paid for the thing and just want to get it running. Don't
mind upgrading to a better video card but will be damn if I have to buy
another CD ROM player.

Thanks

Bill Driscoll

rec.autos.simulators

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